I am going to have a new rifle built. I want to try a new caliber that I will ahve to reload for. I have been looking at the 7.62 x 57mm, 280AI, and the 30-06AI.

which would you suggest and why.

what will the gun be used for and where?

Not the 06AI if you are working with a factory barrel. I have one on an 03a3 with original 24" barrel, have not been able to get it to perform well enough to make it worth the effort. If you are getting a 26" barrel then might be worth it. If you are looking for an Ackley Improved cartridge then may I recommend 3 that I know do work very well and are worth the effort.

257 Roberts AI (I have fired my stepfather's and that is probably what the 03a3 is going to become)

7x57 AI, supposedly one of the cartridges that benefits most from improvement

.35 Whelen AI- I have one, love it, and with a 26" barrel get 225sierra's going at just over 2800fps. That is rockin'! cartridge.

You could alwasy stick with a standard chambering and handload for the gun. If you want to go really unique rifle that needs to be loaded for Mr. Thomas Burgess told me about a cartridge in .25 caliber called the 25 winters I believe, and he said it will out perfrom the 257roberts AI. That would be a strictly handloading proposition! (cool to have something nobody else you run into has though).

Red

Dago Red,

I'm interested in hearing more about this 25 winters cartridge. Do you have the specs or how it's formed? And do you know more about the "Winters" for whom it's named?

JN
The rifle will be used mainly for hogs and deer in Louisiana. If I can ever get up north I will take it with me. I already have a 7 X 57 Mauser and a 308 winchester. I just want something different to tinker with. I will be building this on a remington 1903A3 action. I am also going to order either a Walther barrel or a shilen match grade barrel. All I need to do is pick out what caliber I want.

The .25 Winters (also called the 6.35x59) is formed from a shortened 270 Winchester case. Mr. Winters felt that the 25-06 was "overbore" for a 25 caliber. Thus he wanted a cartridge that represented an "ideal 25 cal" without fireforming. Kieth Francis made the drawings and reamers. Ed Hilton built the first rifle for Mr. Winters, Jerry Fisher the second, and Jim Cloward the third. I sure their are others.

The specs are as follows:

2.323 case length
.442 at shoulder
.339 neck length
28 degree shoulder
COA 3.078 w/117 Sierra FB seated

It purpose was to duplicate the capacity of the 257 Bob AI without the fireforming chore which Mr. O.A.Winters apparently detested.

It was written up in 1977-1978 for Handloader mag. I do have the original article, also in Wildcat Cartridges Volume 2.

Also Pac-Nor lists the reamer on their wildcat chambering list (6.35x59mm).

Bob

[ 09-12-2003, 19:28: Message edited by: Shadow ]

or, if you hate fireforming, you could make 257 ai from 270's and get the same effect

no fireforming...

but shooting 257's are fun, anyway
jeffe

shadow,

thanks for the info, the reason I asked was O.A. Winters was my grandfather and apart from his rifles and article I had never heard anything else about them. That was my grandfather's favorite cartridge and the rifle made by Fisher was his favorite rifle, it is a thing of beauty. My grandfather did indeed absolutely hate fireforming, part of his idiosyncracies I guess. I think he hated "wasting" bullets, powder, and primers. My grandfather passed on a couple of years ago, though I did inherit a couple of his none of them in that chambering, my uncle has them. It was neat to hear that people are still talking about the cartridge. He also created a short .416 that I did inherit.

Ralphie,

That's neat! Your grandfather, sorry to hear he passed on. The article he wrote was good enough for me to remember even though I read it more than 20 years ago. He must have been a very interesting fellow.

Another interesting thing I've found, is that Quality Cartridge makes brass for the 6.35x59, so his legacy lives on.

If you don't have the original article I can scan it and e-mail it too you.

Regards,

Bob

[ 09-13-2003, 04:57: Message edited by: Shadow ]