Here we go again...

I have an old Winchester model 1895 whose caliber is the 8,2x53R, i.e. a necked-up 7,62x54R (x53R as we call it).

What wildcats do you know of that are based on the same case necked up?
For the longest time Sako loaded the 9,3x53R a.k.a. 9,3 Finnish, but that has now been discontinued.
What is the largest bullet diameter you've heard of based on this case?

Second question:

When asking on Nitroexpress.com about other viable options, the German 8,5x63R came up.
That is based on the 7x65R case.
In the size class of this longer case, what viable options could there be? Assuming I want a minimum of .30 cal, and max. about .40 cal (these guns have been drilled up to .411 so we'll say that's the max., ok?).
Of course when making a wildcat I can use any bullet that I want, but what I'm after is something that may be used at least somewhat commonly so that making the ammo will not be a tremendous problem.

Parameters:
1) The max. cartridge length is 85mm of the .30-06
2) Rimmed only (and the rim of the 7,62 Russian is very large: 1mm larger than e.g. 8mm Mauser rimmed)
3) Max. pressure must be kept low: 3900 bar max

Field of use: mostly scandinavian elk and wild boar. Also smaller game; but I'd like to take the rifle on safari. In view of safari, we're discussing plains game but between the lines you can read the question whehter there'd be a round that could even be used on lion or buffalo (for the purpose of this exercise we'll omit the .375H&H minimum legal requirement).
Typical shooting distance less than 100m, but I'd like to reach up to 200m. In my book that reads that when sighted in for 150m the bullet drops max. 10cm (4") @ 200m.

I necked up some x54R brass to 35cal and case capacity was a bit less than the 35Whelen. Not exactly a powerhouse but very suitable for most of the game you list. Hasn't the 411Hawk been fitted to a Win1895 ... I suppose its not rimmed ... but what if you used 400/350NE brass or 9.3x74R brass cut down?? A lot of fiddling around however!! 35Winchester perhaps or a 405Winchester?
Cheers...
Con

quote:

but what if you used 400/350NE brass or 9.3x74R brass cut down?? A lot of fiddling around however!! 35Winchester perhaps or a 405Winchester?

What if, indeed?
I'm glad you didn't ask "why wouldn't you", as the answer would be "because I'm stupid".
Indeed, I only thought of going up, and completely forgot about the option to make a large case smaller... That brings up completely new options!

The .405 Win I did think of, but due to the very low pressures @ 2450 bar it has little potential, I'm afraid.
As such, that is; necking it down would of course be a different matter.

quote:

I necked up some x54R brass to 35cal and case capacity was a bit less than the 35Whelen. Not exactly a powerhouse but very suitable for most of the game you list.

Forgot to ask: what kind of velocities did you achieve?
Bullet selection in .358 isn't too bad and I thought of this, too, based on the recommendations regarding the .358 Win.
Despite the low pressure requirement I think we're talking business here, as the larger case capacity of the x54R case will allow nice velocities.

I remember reading about a cartridge 9.3x53R, which has CIP specs, so it's not a wildcat. As I remember, the Lapua or Vihtavuori reloading manual lists loads for it, and also I believe there are still rifles made in that chamber. I think they are Russian rifles. I think also factory ammo is available somewhere - also I think Russian made.

As I remember this is a Finnish cartridge.

If this is a CIP cartridge, and your rifle is already set up to function and feed the 8.2x53R, I can't imagine why you would want a wildcat. Rebarrel to the 9.3x53R, and it will be hard to beat in all respects, given the limitations of the rifle action.

KB.

True, yes: it's CIP but Sako nor anyone else no longer loads it.

On another forum it was mentioned that there are two 9,3x53R's: one Russian and one Finnish.
I've never heard of the Russian version before, so I could not say what is the difference.

The 9,3x53R to me gives less than the 8,2.
More frontal area and more bullet weight, yes, and marvelous selection of bullets but due to the low velocity the range is too limited.
If you have a look at Sako's datatable, you'll see that the max. practical range of the 8,2mm is 200m - so just within "my" specification!
Sako's figures for the 9,3mm were 2329fps for a 255grs bullet which suggest it just about duplicates the German 9,3x57R.
However, I do see your point Kabluewy, and it certainly is as such a very sound suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by Schauckis:
Forgot to ask: what kind of velocities did you achieve?

I just made up dummies to get a comparison, I didn't actually build or own one. I'm a 35cal fan, hoping to build a 303/35 soon. Now the case capacity was almost exactly between the 35Whelen and 358Win, with low pressures it'll probably match a 358Win.

There's another option that may work ... a wildcat by the name of the 35 Greevy Express ... necked down 45/70. I know of a guy with one in a Marlin 1895 and a Siamese Mauser ... in the Mauser it runs with the 35Whelen.

What if you were to do exactly the same, but use the longer 45/90 case and cut it so as to match the action length you have to deal with?

There's also the original 35Winchester. Determining what is the most practical will be the key.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I remember reading a hunting article a few years ago about bear hunting in Russia. The author, an American, was using a rifle that the Russian guide supplied. It was chambered in a 35 caliber based on the 54R case. He said it worked the same as a 35 Whelen.

Also, take a look at this:
35 x 53R

A rebore to 35 caliber would be easy and you probably wouldn't have to change anything else.

It's reffered to as the 9.3x53R (or 54R). Don't recall when either the Finns or Russian first came up with it. Sixties or seventies, maybe earlier.