Has anyone ever played with necking up an 8mm Mauser case to accept 338 bullets ( 323 vs 338 bore)?

Just playing on my reload bench one day, I loaded up a few dummy rounds to see how they would look. Actually look pretty decent and business like for a shorter action.

Would consider it a short range round in brush type situations.

Also could see its applications on a highly worn 8mm bore Mauser, bored out a little to the 338 diameter.

Have always had an interest in older cartridges, like the old 33 Winchester. Based on a 45/70 case it came out in 1903 or so, and was made until the mid 1930s when it was replaced by the 348.

Hornady still makes a 200 Grain flat nose for this cartridge. I have loaded some of the bullets up in my 338/06 for the intended 33 Winchester velocity. It is a nice effective round, for what it was intended for. Elmer Keith and Parker Ackley both praised it.

For its length, with the 200 grain FN, it can be housed in a short action such as a Ruger, and would make a great 200 yd brush type rig.

I have seen this bore wildcatted on the 308 case, but the complaint was just a little too little powder capacity for 250 grain bullets as they had to be seated too deep into the case capacity.

Recoil is lighter than a 308 with heavier bullets eg 180 grains. and the 200 and 225 grains have Sectional Density of better than .250.

Just wondered if this topic had passed thru anyone elses mind?

Might want to consider having a little brother to your 338-06 by going with a 338-08. The result of going from 308 to 338 in the 308win case is the same as the change you got going to the 338-06 from the 30-06.

I am beginning case preperation for a 338-08 in a Rem. M7 that I am having re-barrelled by The Montana Rifleman.

There is quite a bit of info to be found by doing a search over on ShootersTalk.com in the wildcats section. If you go there and do the search you will find postings by DoubleD where he used this round in Africa on quite a few game animals. He has also used this round on North American game animals as well. His reports on the effectiveness of this round is impressive.

Interested in hearing what you go with.

Elk slayer:

I already have the 338/06. I played with handloading some 338/08s but did not get what I wanted.

The 57 mm case looks more "right" to me than the 308. To me anything bigger than a 7 mm looks like it is short and fat, and unlike the popular trend, I don't care for it. No reason, just don't care for it.

Will never knock a man who carries a 338/08. I like the bore and don't see much need for a magnum since I have been handloading.

One gentleman did do a post from Alaska who has a Ruger International in the Bolt model, not the number one, rebarreled to a 338/06 with an 18 inch barrel. The 338/08 in that set up would be an interesting rifle to me. Was never much of a Model 7 fan, or the 700 either. However just taste and tastes alone.

Good luck with your new rifle tho.

seafire,
Yep--its been done. The original was called the "33-50 O'Neil" or .33 Mauser. Ken Waters wrote the info on this cartridge in "Wildcat Cartridges, Vol one". The original bullet tho was .33 in diameter due to that being the only bullet diameter available at the time. We are talking some 50 years ago.

When I first read about this cartridge some 12-15 years ago, it interested me. I have recently taken it one step further and went the Ackley Improved route. I had Dave Manson make up a reamer following the Ackley perameters and designated it the 338x57 MAI (Mauser Ackley Improved). The E R Shaw SS barrel recently arrived and will be fitted to a VZ-24 action and after initial testing, will be sent off to a fellow wildcatter/experimenter in Alaska for load/pressure development and field testing for Alaskan big game this fall. I believe I sent you an 'e' mail on this cartridge but I could be wrong. I think this will make an excellent caliber choice for all the surplus Mauser actions that have become available with more than enough power to get the job done on bigger game than I have here in south-central Texas. Here it might be usefull on feral hogs or some of the feral/ornery cattle that refuse to go in a pen. If anyone is interested I will post info as the project develops........Best regards,

Ol' John

thanks John,

I would be interested in that.

Although how little neck and shoulder you have already, how did you blow out the shoulder for the ackley?

seafire,
I have a '24 Yugo that was rechambered to the 8x57 MAI, so I used one of the fireformed cases to neck up to the 338x57 MAI. I verified the various measurements that I received with the reamers and then used those measurements in the RCBS LOAD program with the 'Cartridge Designer'.
The standard 8mm Mauser has a 20degree,48' shoulder and diameter at shoulder of 0.4310 and a case capacity of 59.8grs of water.
The 338x57 MAI has a 40degree shoulder and the diameter is 0.4550 at shoulder. Case capacity is 68.7grains of water. This gives an increase of 8.9grains or roughly 14% increase if my math is correct.
I believe the best powders to use will be something in the 4350 range, more or less. I have on hand VV N-150 and 550, AA4350 and H4350. This would be for bullets in the 200-210gr, perhaps a faster powder would be best for the Barnes 165,175,185 bullets. I think the loading density should be 95--105 percent with whatever powder works best. This is all theoretical at this point but I am pretty sure I am in the right ball-park. Time will tell. I feel reasonably certain that a velocity of 2650fps +/- can be reached without running the pressures thru the roof with the 200-210 bullets in a 24" barrel.
Using info available from the "Load from a Disc" program which is based on the original Powley Computer slipstick, which has worked pretty well for me in the past, with VV N140, 95%load density,50,500 CUP, gives a velocity of 2663fps. I am reasonably sure that VV N150 will do the same with 100% load density with less pressure.
As I said -- time will tell when all the components are finally together and the testing begins.

Ol' John

John,

this is an older post, but try some H 380 with that cartridge. I use it in my 338/06 and it has proven to give me the best of both worlds in accuracy and velocity, with all bullet weights.
Secondary back up for me is IMR 4064 or 4895.

Seems to produce less recoil than some of the other powders also.

Seafire,
There is a rimmed version of what you're talking about-- 338JDJ. It's a 444marlin necked to 338. It's slightly improved,less case taper,longer neck than an 8X57, but you could probably use some of the load data.

[ 06-20-2003, 16:41: Message edited by: RAS 323 ]

And such a cartridge would be no more a "short-range, brush shooting only" proposition than is the .358 Winchester!!

[ 06-20-2003, 21:32: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Seafire, that was weird. I just finished reading an article five minutes ago and came back to the forum and saw your question. Check this out:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_OConnor.htm
It was a very interesting article, hope it's what you were looking for.

Wstrnhuntr, that is indeed interesting. But I don't believe that round would be any better for the intended purposes that a .358 Win. firing a 220-grain Speer flatpoint at 2400-2450 FPS!! In fact, I'd be willing to bet that it would perform almost identically with the .338X57 or the .348 Win. with 200-grain bullets!!

[ 06-26-2003, 15:52: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

eldeguello, et al,
Couldn't agree with you more on the comparisons you made with the 338x57.
When I had the 338x57 MAI reamer made, the idea was a simple easy conversion to the many surplus Mauser actions now available on the market. Its a no hassle conversion with little, if any, modifications to the action therefore reducing expense in building a custom rifle. Both the 8mmx57 MAI and the 338x57 MAI would provide extra "juice" to the tried & true 98 Mauser action. I believe in the KISS principle when it comes to building a custom rifle. The less you have to do to achieve the goals you have set for the game to be hunted the less expense incurred. For example, if you want to build a rifle on the 308 case and its offspring it can be done on a 98 Mauser but it requires a magazine blocker and shortening of the follower. More work, more expense!!! Better to obtain a used Rem 700 SA and do the rebarreling on that action. I was a consumer long before I began as a riflesmith. I want my customers/friends to be able to obtain their firearm at the least expense possible and for myself to make enough profit to keep the doors open. That way we both win, IMHO.

Ol' John

[ 06-26-2003, 17:02: Message edited by: HondoJohn6508 ]

Plus, you have all kinds of great .338" bullets to choose from!!