Anyone out there shooting a 250-3000 AI? How do you like it? Do you per chance have a few cases you could spare me? THanks

DEar Scott,
Glad to help you out. Send me your address and I`ll send out a few cases and about 4 pages of notes from the 2-3 250 AIs I have built for myself and family. I am into my third reamer and the customers that have the rifles love them.
Aloha, Mark[in Or]
kailuacustom@msn.com

Scott

The buck in my avatar fell to my 250 AI. That’s enough for me. I shot him with a 100gr Nosler BT. I wouldn’t really recommend this bullet for 215lb + deer, but it worked. I don't have my notes here at work but it is a near max load of Varget from the sierra manual. Needles to say 'ol buck-e-bucks lungs were sloshed. He ran about 75 yards total. This particular load will sometimes go less than half an inch. I think next I will try some of the 100grn TSX's. All in all it is a fun gun to shoot with very little recoil and has been very accurate considering the wispy (Pac-Nor light contour) barrel. It weighs about 61/2 lbs with scope and sling. And like I say most every thing I have tried has been no more than an inch and a quarter. Plenty good for hunting. Also that is about the best I have ever gotten out of the 75grn v-max. I wish I could get a little better out of them but they still make a milk jug explode with vigor. Ant no telling what they would do to a cat. Oops did I let that slip.
One more thing of note, my rifle was built on 700 short action adl. It was originally a 243 and feeds and functions great.

Shawn

I have had 2 250-3000AIs and as much as I tried to love it, I finally decided that it was a cartridge that just didn't work for me. I rechambered a Ruger 77 RSI to 250-3000AI and subsequently to 25 Souper, which I think is the better of the 2 cartridges. I also had a Savage 99CD rechambered to 250-3000AI and subsequently to 25-284. In short barreled rifles I perfer the 25 Souper and in longer barreled rifles, 22"+, I perfer the 25-284. I currently have about 40 25 caliber rifles and have shot all of the common 25s, so I can speak with so experience. Although there are some, like Mark and Steve Timm, who champion the 250-3000AI, I am decidedly not a fan. BTDT and it just didn't perform as promised at reasonable pressure levels. You'll never be sorry if you go 25 Souper, 257 Roberts, or 25-284 in a short action rifle.

Jeff

I think the 250AI is about as well balanced as a cartridge can be. I had plans to have one screwed together and read every piece of info I could find on it. Practically all was positive. That said, I agree with 260RemGuy that the 25 Souper makes more sense. Brass is better and easier to come by and case capacity is identical. They both fit the same actions and while you must neck down (or up), there is no fireforming required with the standard version of the Souper. The improved version of the Souper likewise makes little sense as the 25-284 is the King of the short 25s (as long as you don't count the WSM and SAUM... ) and fits in any short bolt action as well. If you're dead set on the 250AI, check out the 12th Ed. Handloader's Digest. A good article there (and plenty in these archives).

Hi 260 Rem,
Hey guy!! I go along with you about 97%. The 250 Sav AI is a very nice little round and it`t sure done it stuff here in Or where the deer shots are usually pretty close. But!! The 25 Souper kinda takes over where the 250 leaves off. Especially if a guy uses the 117 gr bullets. As I use ONLY 100 gr I guess there is just buckets of redundancy. Aw Heck--as Will Rodgers would have said "I never met a 25 I didn`t like". Comes time to hop in the truck[make that crawl lately] The task of choosing the rifle 25 Souper/250 AI becomes challenging. It all boils down to what feels the best at the time.

Aloha, Mark

AI. An acronym that goes through my head like a rusty nail every time I hear it.

The following is a quote from Cartridges of the World.
The 250/3000 Improved was originated by P.O. Ackley in the late 40's and although one of the best of the Ackley "Improved" line of cartridges, has never achieved great popularity.
This statement is based upon the observation that it offers the greatest percentage of velocity increase of any of the Improved line of wildcats.It goes on to say that it's an Excellent conversion which improves extraction, extends case life and increases performance markedly.
I just had a 250 Ackley Improved built on an early FN 98 action, just waiting for my stock from Wenig. A .243 Ackley Improved is also under constuction. I also own two 22/250AI's,
two .257AI's and i'm also planning on Ackleyizing my .223 and .221 Fireball. To say that I love my Ackley's is an under statement.
To the original poster, my advice would be to go for it!
Stepchild

Another one to consider is the 257DGR.

It is basicly a modified 25 Souper. The shoulder is pushed back slightly to give you a longer neck and a 30 degree shoulder. As with the 25 Souper no "fireforming" is required.

I know I love mine, it is about the only rifle I have hunted with since I got it. 100gr Nosler BT's at 3150fps for deer, I have pushed them to near 3300fps but accuracy is best at 3150fps in my rifle. For Coyote and fox I use 85gr Starke RPVB's and some that I made.

Here are a couple of links with info on the 257DGR:
http://www.duanesguns.com (mine is the Deluxe Rifle Pictured)
http://www.angelfire.com/nd/243ackleyimproved Then follwo the link to the 257DGR Reference Document

Good Hunting
Jeff in ND

Stepchild 2,

It is generally recognized that Ackley's loading data is often, perhaps even mostly, at or over maximum safe pressures, so the claims usually don't measure up in "real life", particularly if you're not pushing the limits of safety.

If the 250-3000AI moves you, well that's cool with me. I tried it, twice, and it didn't work as well for me as the common alternatives. There isn't anything that a 250-3000AI can do that the 25 Souper can't do as well and the 25-284 better.

Jeff

Jeff,
Since my rifle is under construction and I don't have any concrete numbers to pass along, all I can say is from past experience with Ackley cartridges is they are achievers to say the least. To compare the 25/284 to the 250AI isn't exactly fair, with the .284 case being considerably larger. I don't think the original post asked what the fastest .25 caliber cartridge was?, just what your opinion was about the 250AI. Efficency should enter into the equation,
should it not? I have used Ackley Improved cartridges dating back to the mid 70's and have not found them wanting for anything!
Stepchild

OK, to clarify my position on the 250AI.

My opinion, based on having owned and loaded for 2 250AIs, is that it is a sub-optinal solution. In other words, I think that the 250AI is not the best choice when compared to the other short action alternative; 25 Souper, 257 Roberts, 257AI, and 25-284.

The text that you quoted from COTW appears to be a paraphrase of what was written about the 250AI in POA's book and, IMO, much of what POA wrote was "puffed" to make the AI concept appear to produce more performance than it does, if loaded at reasonable/safe levels. POA was a good marketeer of his concept and the AI concept does work, but generally not to the degree promised. If you subscribe to the rule of thumb that a 4% increase in powder capacity produces a 1% increase in velocity, you just don't get much more "bang" for your "buck$" with the 250AI verses the 250-3000.

I don't care how people spend their $$, I've spent more than my fair share on failures and dogs. But, like a man told me long ago, "LT, you won't live long in combat if you learn by your failures, so learn from the failure of others.". I consider my 250AI experiences to be failures/dogs and offered my opinion, backed by actual experience, as an opportunity for others to learn something without the expense. Of course, everybody is different and you may find it to be the best cartridge that you've every used. This is, after all, just my opinion and what do I know?

Any questions about where I stand and why I am standing there?

Jeff

Dear 260.
I can agree with you on almost all points except one. The 250/3000 was/is still a nice calibre for those who want a light recoiling rifle and limit their shots to , say, 2000 yds or so. I [personally] get tired of neck splits and tossing cases after 5-7 loadings. Hence the 250 AI. I make all my brass for it from L.C. NM cases. First going to the standard 250/300 and then fireforming and all the nornal things done to good brass. After fireforming the brass lasts literally forever. Accuracy is very good and recoil is non-existant for the most part. WhenI go elk hunting and take a 25 along as backup I always take my Souper as the shots may be a bit longer but the little 250 AI probably would do just as good. As I consider accuracy king and not velocity the 250 still fills the freezer with Blacktail every year. I dearly love my 25 Souper and , most likely, will take it out this year and give the 250 a rest. I agree with you about Ackleys touting his AI but, in some cases, it works. Not all but some are far better than others. He told me personally in the early 70s that he considered the 250/300 AI and the 7mm Mauser /AI his best. He never really mentioned the multitude of others. I recently built a 7x57 AI for a guy in NM and he says it does what his 280 AI and comes close to his 7mm RM. I cannot verify this as I have not seen the results first hand. I have never done the 7x57 AI as I feel the standard is plenty good enough for me as is.

Aloha, Mark

Hey GANG!!! That is a typo!! Meant to say 200 yds NOT 2000. Hope you understand.

Aloha, Mark

Although I agree with most of the posters on using the longer cartridges on the short actions, I've ordered one of the Charles Daly itty bitty Mauser actions in left-hand. The bolt face will be opened up, a CD 22-250 magazine installed, and it will be barreled in .250AI for a short little gun. Why? Because.

Mark,

I have found that people who plan and build a rifle tend to be a little less than objective when it comes to the performance of their "child".

Like I have written, I have tried it twice and it didn't work for me as well as the logical alternatives. I still have the 250AI finish reamer, but I can't think of any good reason ever to use it again. Maybe I'll put it on Ebay.

Jeff

prof242, I am of the opinion that that's all the reason you need! "Because" works very well for me. That's the only reason I needed to build myself a 250 AI. Jim

Scott,

My .250AI is the only .25 I have ever tried, so I can't compare it to other .25s, but I can tell you what my chronograph tells me.....

3140 w/ 100gr bullets
3300 w/ 87gr bullets
3400 w/ 75gr bullets

All this with very light recoil, no case trimming, and great barrel life.

I'm not sure how fair it is to compare the .250 AI to cartridges with 25/06 capacity. Apples to oranges.

All that being said, if I were doing a similar project agian, I would probably go with the .260 Rem. Only .007" difference in bullet diameter, no fireforming, and better capability on the heavier end of the game spectrum. With bullets of similar sectional density, the .260 and the .250 AI have very similar velocities.

John

Dear 260 Remguy,
I agree with your last post 110%. When you`re working with a wildcat you cannot afford to be objective!! If you were you`d be using a 30-06, buying your Yellow/Green hunting ammo in Bi-Mart , firing your over-the-counter rifle 3-5 shots each year at the range[off the hood of your truck] to make sure you have the required "minute of pie-plate" and going out and killing your deer. Although I utterly HATE the word "diversity" as I feel it`s the downfall of out nation, in this case I welcome it! Thank God we have the diversity to be a bit different. That is what makes living in America so great. When I think of the word "Wildcatter" I think of a person who puts a bit more into his shooting skills and loading of course. A person who normally goes that extra mile to get the most out of his/her firearm and probably [?] makes better shots. BTW-If your 250 AI reamer is Clymer I`d be interested in a trade/buy. Mine is getting to the point where it`s time to consider another one soon. Please let me know if you decide to get rid of it.

Aloha, Mark

If your magazine will handle it use the 257 Roberts or 25-06.