Has anyone necked up a .338 Rum to 35 caliber, or how about the 8mm Rem mag to 35 caliber?

How did they perform for you?

I think the first conversion (338 RUM to .358) is called the 358 UMT (Ultra Mag Towsley) and the second (8mm Rem. Mag. to .358) would be the 358 STA.

Both have plenty of power .

pinotguy

what does that sta stand for?

22wrf

I have done the 300 RUM up to 358, and it is super. I also have 2 358 STAs---Shooting Times Alaskan-by Lane Simpson. The 358 Ultra is a great 35 caliber. A touch longer than the 338 RUM, but basically the same. Would be little to no difference in ballistics. Or none that mattered.

Michael

Michael458

You have great taste in 35 cals. I also have a 358 STA and 2 358/300 Ultra Mags along with a 358 Norma Mag,350 Remington Mag and a 358 Winchester. I'd say the 35 cals. are hard to beat and will take down anything in North America and Alaska. Seems to be becoming more looked at these days. I just wish the bullet makers would add a few new bullets to choose from.

Serious Question: why would anyone pay for two rifles in the same caliber? I don't have all the calibers/chamberings I'd like yet, let alone sets.
Excepting home defense rifles in 308 and 223.
Sign me, "still sampling"...

Rich
DRSS

Well because my friend and I built a pair of 358/300 Ultra's and split the cost of a reamer.Then later in his life he decided to sell his 358 and I bought it from him for a very cheap price and it was a totally different style of rifle but same round. And most of all because I can have as many as I want.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
22wrf

I have done the 300 RUM up to 358, and it is super. I also have 2 358 STAs---Shooting Times Alaskan-by Lane Simpson. The 358 Ultra is a great 35 caliber. A touch longer than the 338 RUM, but basically the same. Would be little to no difference in ballistics. Or none that mattered.

Michael

Michael

I am a bit confused. You say that the 358 Ultra is a "touch" longer than the 338 RUM, but basically the same. Isn't the .358 Ultra made from the 338 RUM Case? If so, how does it get to be a "touch" longer?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Serious Question: why would anyone pay for two rifles in the same caliber?
Rich
DRSS

Rich,
It's a disease!! My safe has 358Win, 350RemMag, 35-06Whelen ... have reamer for the 358CRG (35/300RCM), been trying to get a 35/303 project off the ground for 4 months and keep getting hampered ... and would LOVE to open a stainless Ruger Hawkeye action and chamber to the old 350G&H magnum. 35's once in your blood are hard to get out!
Cheers...
Con
PS: Just editing to add ... some guys I affectionately call a part of our 'Australian 35 clan brotherhood' are running a 358Sambar (35/300WSM), 358ME (35x57Imp), and a 35/284. And my gunsmith keeps telling me I MUST let him build me a 'proper rifle in 400/350NE.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I am a bit confused. You say that the 358 Ultra is a "touch" longer than the 338 RUM, but basically the same. Isn't the .358 Ultra made from the 338 RUM Case? If so, how does it get to be a "touch" longer?

The 300RUM and 338RUM are not the same case ... the later has been shortened marginally. There's been some '35RUMs' made in Australia but the 'smith that I know of that built them really built 35/338RUMs. Redding dies when I enquired are cut for the full length case ... that is 35/300RUM.
Cheers...
Con

22WRF,

I didn't see that anyone had answered your question. It stands for Shooting Times Alaskan.
Layne Simpson developed a family of cartridges based on the 8mm rem mag. from 257 to 358. The 7mm STW is probably the best known. The 358 STA is the 8mm rem mag necked up 35 cal. The 8mm rem mag is a belted cartridge. The RUM family is based on the 404 Jeffrey to my understanding. The RUM's are not belted. The 300 RUM will actually hold a small amount more powder. I believe there is a cartridge called the 338 edge that is the 300 RUM necked up to 338. You might do a google search if your interested.
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by hoeram:
Michael458

You have great taste in 35 cals. I also have a 358 STA and 2 358/300 Ultra Mags along with a 358 Norma Mag,350 Remington Mag and a 358 Winchester. I'd say the 35 cals. are hard to beat and will take down anything in North America and Alaska. Seems to be becoming more looked at these days. I just wish the bullet makers would add a few new bullets to choose from.

hoeram

Thanks! I have two of the stainless/wood Winchester M70s in 358 STA that come out of the custom shop I think around 1999 or so. One of them I have used all over the world for different things and it has been one of the most dependable rifles I have ever owned. Damn near magic! At the same time I got this rifle one of my best friends got one, he decided to sell, I bought it too! I figured if 358 STA was good then 358/300 Ultra had to be real good. So I had several of the Win M70 guns built in 300 RUM and converted a super grade one of those to 358 UltraX300RUM. I have not taken it to the field but I have some fantastic loads for it, and sure it will do a good job sometime. In addition I have a couple of 35 Whelens and 358 Winchester on M70s. Gotta love those 35s!

Rich
A strange disease of which I am terribly inflicted. I don't understand it myself sometimes. In some cases I not only have 2 of the same cartridge, but as many as 1/2 dozen or more, especially if it is a good one and I can find different places to use it. I think one must always have an Alaska version-stainless and synthetic, for those wet places. Then a blue version maybe with some fine wood on it-then of course don't forget the stainless/fine wood versions, maybe one with a shorter barrel, maybe just one set up with iron sights, the other with glass? It is a disease amongst some of us. In my case my window of interest is narrow. Much below 338 caliber I have near zero interest in, above .510 caliber I have little interest. I skip 375 altogether, straight to 416--.510. So I have several of each if it really gets my interest.

Con is right--on both counts--it is a disease and to answer 22WRF he is correct. I don't know of too many 358 Ultras--the ones I do know about are based on the 300 RUM--I think RCBS has dies for both however, so there are guns out there based of the 338 RUM too. Either way I don't think it would make much difference ballistically. I went with the 300 RUM because I figured there might be more brass out there for that than the 338 RUM. Of course I had a 338 RUM built too on a WIn M70--so have both. Not only that, but my B&M series for the most part is based off 300 RUM brass, so I always have stock brass on hand for that.

The 358 Ultra is a good cartridge and has been easy to load for. You get 100-150 fps more that a STA, so not a lot of real world difference. I never did push the 358 STA that hard too. I pushed 250s to around 2850 fps in the STA and in the Ultra 2950 to 3000 fps.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
The 358 STA is the 8mm rem mag necked up 35 cal.

The 358STA was conceived as a 35/8mmRemMag ... it was then modified by sharpening the shoulder and reducing case taper a bit as well from memory.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
The 358 STA is the 8mm rem mag necked up 35 cal.

The 358STA was conceived as a 35/8mmRemMag ... it was then modified by sharpening the shoulder and reducing case taper a bit as well from memory.
Cheers...
Con

Con

100% on the money correct.
Michael

So, If I want to convert a regular Mauser (mark x) magnum action probably the best way to go would be the 358 STA, seeing as how the bolt face is going going to be pretty close to that of the magnum bolt face.

Wonder how the 358 STA compares to the .358 Norma Mag. (I gotta get me one of those Cartidges of the World books).

Is there a factory load for .358 STA?

IIRC, A-Square offered some factory ammo for the 358 STA. They had 4-5 loads using their proprietary bullets and a couple of other things.

I'm a fan of the .35's too and always thought the 35 Newton may have been the ultimate .358 ever made.

I've been firing my .358 X .404 for many years now. Can also be done with the .375 Ultra mag. cases.The .404, however does not have a rebated rim.

Bartsche

What action is that rifle built on?

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Bartsche

What action is that rifle built on?

Mod.98 with a single shot follower.It also wears a home grown muzzle brake. Without the brake I would not shoot it.There's a line between gutless and prudent. It has safely driven 250gr. bullets at over 3100 fps.2750 fps is a snap. roger

From my collection,

commercial and wildcat RUM's from 7 mm to 458
I have also necked up the 338 to 358 and 9,3 mm



7 RUM , 300 RUM , 8 mm RUM , 338 RUM , 338/300 RUM , 358 RUM , 9.3 mm RUM , 375 RUM , 416 RUM , 458 RUM

That .358 RUM looks wicked.

22WRF

I have some pretty good load data on 358 RUM. While I have not used it in the field I have no doubts of what it can be capable of.

Michael

Michael

Which gunsmith has the reamer for that 35 Rum?

22WRF

SSK Industries. Call 740-264-0176 and speak with Brian, he can sort out what you need.

Michael

I don't see the fascination with a .35 when it's essentially a .338 but the bullets are less aerodynamic.

Why not just go to a .375 and get a serious upgrade in punch?

Tyler

In many ways you have a point. But that is what shooting is all about, differences and good excuses to shoot and have different calibers and rifles.

I love 338 caliber too. I have and shoot 338/06, 338 WSM, 338 Winchester, and 338 Ultra. Now what in the hell would anyone need 4 different 338 caliber rifles for? One does not, but each of them have different attributes that makes them a separate entity from the other!

Go to 35 caliber, I have shot a hell of a lot of critters with 358 and 338. Overall I do believe the 358 hits a little harder overall than 338. Probably about the same as 358 vs 375. I don't own a 375 of any sort, a little too common for me and as far as I am concerned maybe a little over blown as for it's performance. But I do like both 358 and 338. Believe me a 280 gr 35 caliber Swift A frame at 2850 fps has plenty of punch. But so does a 250 gr 338 caliber bullet at 2850 fps or better.

Personally I consider anything from 338 up to 40 being medium caliber. I don't consider medium caliber for serious dangerous game work. Medium caliber handles the big bears just fine of course, but they are superb on the big plains game, elk, moose and that sort of thing. I think 338 and 358 fit the bill a bit better for that category than 375. My opinion of 375 is that it is not quite a small gun, but it falls way short of being a real big bore. It's still just a medium being stretched to doing things that a real big bore should be doing.

Nothing wrong with a 375 at all, but I don't see it being much more of a big deal than either 338 or 358 and in most all cases I would just soon have the 338 or 358. Plenty of good bullets for both those calibers that would work just as well as the 375 in nearly all situations. Legal minimums in some cases hunting dangerous game would be the only difference, and again I really don't think the 375 should be stretched to do that anyway. That is of course just my opinion and yes I realize how many people have used 375 for everything on the planet. I also know that there have been a lot of folks used bows and sticks to shoot everything that walks.

I think everyone should have several of each!!!!!!!

Michael

You ain't going to do much fire forming with.338 pistol bullets. roger

I already have two .338 Win Mags and two .300 Win Mags. I want to move up a caliber. I doubt I will ever get up to Alaska for a Brown Bear, and if I went to Africa I would want a .416. But I do hunt elk and I think that .358 Rum would be one hell of an Elk Rifle.

22WRF

Might have to change your name to 358RUM instead of 22WRF????

I shot elk, eland, kudu, wildebeast, hartebeast, lot's of impala, pigs, monkeys and lord knows what else with 358 STA and it did the job well. I have no doubts of what the 358 Ultra can do!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
You ain't going to do much fire forming with.338 pistol bullets. roger

... or find 0.338" plinkers at bargain basement prices. Even in Australia I can get 35cal 158gr 'plinkers' for AUD$80 per 500.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by hoeram:
Michael458

You have great taste in 35 cals. I also have a 358 STA and 2 358/300 Ultra Mags along with a 358 Norma Mag,350 Remington Mag and a 358 Winchester. I'd say the 35 cals. are hard to beat and will take down anything in North America and Alaska. Seems to be becoming more looked at these days. I just wish the bullet makers would add a few new bullets to choose from.

Why

All you really need is that 250 Nos Partition.

quote:

Why

All you really need is that 250 Nos Partition.

While the 250 Partition certainly is a good bullet for some species, in my opinion it falls short in some areas. I would much prefer a Swift A Frame or Barnes TSX for most work on bigger animals, zebra, eland, moose sort of critters. For lesser critters I would just soon have either a Hornady Interlock. I would also make use of some of the Woodleighs.

That is my "Why".

Michael

I shoot extensively two .358 STA's, one a custom from Winchesters Custom Shop, the second a custom from Wyoming on a Winchester post 64 action with Lilja barrel. My son and I have hunted Elk with them for some years now, I have taken the former to Alaska, Alberta and Africa. In my opinion, coupled with North Fork bullets from 225-250-270 grains, the STA is one of the most awesome rounds ever manufactured. We have taken several Bulls, I took Impala, Kongoni, Zebra with the STA. The 270 grain North Fork was ideal for Africa and we used it several years in Colorado for Elk, until one year we got too much penetration. My son was shooting the Lilja Custom using the 270 grain North Fork. He shot a huge Bull at 125 yards with no other animals visable in the background. The bullet plowed through both shoulders, then hit a bedded Cow, unseen to the shooter, 25 yards beyond. All he found was the dead Bull and 25 yards beyond him was the bedded Cow laying with her head on a foot as asleep. Close inspection revealed a spot of blood on the side of her head. He assumed one bullet killed both. He was tagged for two Elk, so everything was OK, he just didn't want them both at the same time. The next day we dug the perfectly mushroomed North Fork bullet from the opposite side of her Cranium. We were the only shooters on the mountain with North Fork bullets. To say we like the STA's would be an understatment. Good shooting.

I;d be interested in hearing some loads for the .358 STA. What is the preferred powder? Who makes dies for it.

phurley5

While I have not used 35 caliber North Forks in the field I have tested some in other calibers, 416 and 458 and they are superb!!! I would have them right in the class with Swifts, and that is excellent.

Both of my 358 STAs are the stainless wood from the Custom Shop--love those rifles, both extremely accurate!

22WRF

Several different powders have worked good for me over the years with the 358 STA. I used the most loads with IMR 4831 and 250s at or around 2850 fps. With the 280 Swift again IMR 4831 at a touch over 2700 fps. Now this is not at top velocities, but both are very accurate and have very close the same point of impact in my rifles at 100 yds, so I could pick and choose the bullet for the job at hand without changing scope settings.

Later test work showed that H-4350, RL 19 and RL 22 all gave very good results too.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I;d be interested in hearing some loads for the .358 STA. What is the preferred powder? Who makes dies for it.

The .358X.404IMP gets 3025fps with 92gr. aa4350 and 97.5gr. DP86(close to AA3100). The dies came from RCBS and were a tad expensive. roger

22WRF ----- My magic powder for both STA's is RL-22. Nothing else I have tried comes close in speed and accuracy. My rifles both have stainless barrels and the Lilja barrel is 50 to 150 fps faster than the Winchester on all loads. My go to load now on Elk is 250 grain North Fork bullet with 92 grains RL-22, Fed 215M primer and my speeds are 2850 fps to 2950 fps depending on which rifle I am shooting. I load the 270 grain North Fork to almost identical speeds with 90 grains RL-22. I get 3100 fps out of the 225 grain North Fork with 93 grains RL-22. All those loads will shoot into a one hole (3-shots touching each other) when I have my best day pulling the trigger. I have shot all other bullets manufactured in this country and the including all size A-Frames and the only other bullet that gives me one holers is the Kodiak 250 grain. When I shoot it into my test box at the above speeds I get a silver dust blob with fragments of copper. The North Forks are always mushroomed perfectly. I recovered a 270 grain North Fork from the STA after shooting a Kongoni (Lichenstein Hartebeest) in the Selous. I hit him through the shoulder and it angled into the neck bone and was found on the off side in the skin. It was perfectly mushroomed and still had 85% of it's weight. My Winchester Custom is also one of those georgeous Red Walnut stocks, I call it "Big Red". -----22WRF -- My dies came from Fred Huntington who sold out to RCBS originally. Good shooting.

My STA shoots 89.5 grs. of RL 19 best with Nos.225 BT's and Fed 215M. Shoots 5/8" for 3 Rds. across the screens at 3004 FPS. This is from a 24" Shilen Barrel on a 700 action. Never had a need to shoot 250 Gr. Nos Par. 225 Gr. B/T's Kill just fine If I need more I'll step up to some 300 Gr, Barnes RN or 275 Gr. Bitterroot.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I would also make use of some of the Woodleighs.

Michael

Woodleigh has released in PP configuration a 225gr, 250gr and 275gr. From a 35Sambar (35/300WSM) the 225gr PP holds up well even at close range with a striking speed of around 2700fps.

With the big STA or RUM based cases ... I reckon the 275gr Woodleigh is the only real option. Lesser weights would more than likely become big flat pancakes, which isnt necessarily a bad thing on soft skinned game!
Cheers...
Con

Just a visual comparison,some 358" cartridges

from left:
358 Winchester
358 WSM
350 Remington magnum
35 Whelen
35 Newton
358 Norma magnum
358 - 338 RUM


358 - 300 RUM
358 STA ( first version , simply the 8 mm remington magnum case necked up)
350 Griffin & Howe