I am ready to start building my first custom rifle on a CRF short-action Win. Model 70 Featherweight. I want something with light recoil (for my wife and girls) that is effective (not marginal) on whitetail. I have narrowed my choices down to the classic 257 Roberts or the 25-308 wildcat.

Does one offer much advantage over the other or are they pretty much equal as I suspect. I think the 25-308 will fit a little better, but the Bob will work. Brass for the 25-308 would be easier to acquire or at least would never run out with all the 308 based rounds out there. The 257 Roberts case is available, but maybe less so?

If I have the rifle built and was ever forced to sell it, would one of these rounds be more desirable?

Give me your opinions.

Thanks,
Mark in GA

257 Bob is a factory load and brass is available everywhere because it is based on a necked down 7x57.

Resale value will always be better with a factory round.

The roberts will hold about 2 grains more powder. Comparing the two is like asking which is better the 243 or 6mm the 7X57 or the 7-08.

I have a 257 and love it. If it will fit in your action then you have a factory round instead of a wildcat. Factory ammo in a pinch and cheaper dies. As to brass, 6mm, 7x57 is the same brass. Buy a hundred or two and it will last a lifetime.

In my opinion 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

Have you checked your magazine length?
That can be a deciding factor.
If the 257 Roberts is a bit long why not try the 260 Remington?

If the Roberts will fit go with it as it handles the heavier bullets better.

If it doesn't fit go with the 250-3000 Savage. There is nothing marginal for white tail with that cartridge and when it makes its come back she will already be ahead of the game. Brass is no problem. roger

Mark,

I have a .250 Savage in a lightweight tang safety Ruger M77 for a "grandkid rifle". It is still a factory round, and is very effective.

jim

If it was me, I would pick the 257 roberts firstly. If I was looking for something that would be "mine" meaning something not seen everyday, then I would consider this. Am I going to use this for varmits and deer, anything larger? If beg deer or something up to about 300lbs, then the 25 souper. If deer was the largest thing I would likely hunt with this gun, then I would go with a lite handy 250-3000 improved. With 100gr or less bullets all would be about equal. With 115-120gr bullets, the roberts and the souper would have the edge. I really like the 250 savage, and the improved version is great, truely the equal of the roberts ect.. with 100gr bullets or less. Heck, I have a 250-3000, 250-3000 improved, a 257 roberts, a 25-06, and 257 weatherby. They are all good!!! Good luck.

If you decide on the 257 Roberts I've got a reamer on my clearance list, Chamber Reamer Clearance, #17.

257R gets my vote.

SA CRFM70 has a 3.08" magbox.
Winchesters FW 6.5x55 is chambered in a SA.
Winchesters 7x57 factory load fits in the magbox.
Why would 257r be a problem?

Why go with a fat tubby improved 250/3000?You still have to carry the same size gun around, and The roberts case would feed much smoother and give you all that performance without fuss.,resale would be in your favour also.(but I bet you wont want to sell it once youve enjoyed the delights of it.)

It was already in the back of my mind, but Now I am tempted to turn my SaM70 into a Robby!!

Go with the .257 Roberts. I'd always stick with available factory ammo and brass, especially when you are working with an outrageously underloaded round. Most USA ammo for the .257 Roberts is anemic, same as our 7x57mm, because of lawyers and the existence of obsolete actions. For that matter, why do we have hefty ammo in .30-06 and .270 when all those WW1 and earlier M1903s are still around? It's a wonder.

LLS

I`ll go against the grain. If resale is not a major concern? Go with the 25 Souper. Initial expense is higher but better brass is available in 308 Win. I use ONLY Mil 308 N.M. and it lasts forever. This is just my .02 worth. I have mine and love it.

Aloha, Mark

Why is it that everyone say's "stay with the factory cartridge" when talking about the 257Rob. vrs. the 25 Souper but bend over backwards to build a 25/284 instead of the factory 25/06?

Mark, there is no question here as you will be best served by the .25 Souper AKA the 25/308. The best brass currently available is the Lapua and 243 necks up real easy. I have been shooting a 257 Ackley for nearly 16 years and still wish I had gone to a Souper! Reason is the short action Sako only allows a 2.820 overall cartridge length. The 120's seat too deeply. You could always do the Ackley version of the Souper as an alternative to increase the horsepower and add a uniqueness level of interest... Either way the .25's are truly amazing. Took 14 Impala and many other animals over the years with it, so it can't be all bad. That includes the 2 Mouflons in the sun room, and a 218 B&C (gross) Muley in British Columbia a mear decade ago. Good luck and good shooting.

quote:

Resale value will always be better with a factory round.

Darn tootin...I'm voting for the Roberts as well.

My Souper is on a M57 Sako-fine old action. I also have a 6.5X257AI(260AAR) on a L579 and feel exactly the my 308 friend feels. Atlease using a short Sako go with the 308 case.

I have and like the .257 Roberts. Remington makes factory brass for it. Winchester makes +P .257 Roberts brass.

I don't like wildcats because you always have a brass-forming problem with them. If you actively enjoy brass-forming, that would be a plus for the wildcat, otherwise making brass is a nusiance.

The difference between the Roberts and the 25/308 will be about the same as the difference between the 6mm Remington and the .243 -- in other words, it's negligible.

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:
Mark, there is no question here as you will be best served by the .25 Souper AKA the 25/308. The best brass currently available is the Lapua and 243 necks up real easy. I have been shooting a 257 Ackley for nearly 16 years and still wish I had gone to a Souper! Reason is the short action Sako only allows a 2.820 overall cartridge length. The 120's seat too deeply. You could always do the Ackley version of the Souper as an alternative to increase the horsepower and add a uniqueness level of interest... Either way the .25's are truly amazing. Took 14 Impala and many other animals over the years with it, so it can't be all bad. That includes the 2 Mouflons in the sun room, and a 218 B&C (gross) Muley in British Columbia a mear decade ago. Good luck and good shooting.

Fess up 308 Sako. That is a fine array of game you've killed with the 250-.308 but the performance could have been done just as good with the Roberts and the Roberts has the added edge of seating the heavier bullets out farther should you happen to get some 130 grainers. Personal peference is fine as long as your prose doesn't lead to confusion. roger

Think you got it backwards, in a short action the Souper case (308) would have the edge in seating longer bullets out because of the shorter case length.

One thing for sure, I've had 2 257 in the past and velocities in equal barrel lenghts is almost identical.

quote:

Originally posted by Pedro in Idaho:
Think you got it backwards, in a short action the Souper case (308) would have the edge in seating longer bullets out because of the shorter case length. .

Maybe your right. I for one would never build a Roberts on a short action. Usually the .308 cartridge family have magazine and throat restrictions that cause the longer heavier bullets to be pushed into the powder room. That really was my point all though I can see I wasn't as explicit as I could have been. roger

On a short action, I would build a .250 Sav. Ackley Improved. Bartsche brings up a good point about the magazine length being a limiting factor for the .257 Bob, but also you may want to consider whether the gun will ever be transported by air. I don't know how much trouble it would be to get improperly headstamped ammo through security, but others have had problems in some overseas airports. The .25 Souper is a facinating round and I've often thought of building a short actioned rifle with a switch barrel configuration. Both are excellent rounds and the quarter bores are excellent choices for your ladies. Let us know which you choose.

Since your action is the short variety; you might consider the .25 Souper (.25-308). Normally long actions are used for cartridges in the .257 or 7 X 57 m/m and .30-06 length cartridges. I use to have a .25 Souper and it was just as good or better than the .257 Roberts. If your current M-70 Winchester is already chambered for the .243 then you can just have the barrel rebored and rechambered for the .25 Souper.

Many years ago in Hawaii I decide to do a test of the 257 Roberts etc. I took a McGowan XX 24" barrel and put it on a 700 long action. I then chambered it for the 257 Rob. Worked up to max with the 120 bullet seated to work in a SA. [2.820]. All were run over a customers Oehler 33 which was the "Creme-de la Creme" back then. Then worked up max with the same bullets seated to the base of the neck. As I recall it amounted to another grain or so. Anyway! The difference in velocity was only 22 fps. Then i set the barrel back and did a Ack 40 deg IMP Roberts. Did the same sort of loading and, if memory serves, gained about 80 fps with the 2,820 and 95 fps with the bullets seated out. To me this was a pretty fair test as all the componets were the same and so was the barrel. Don`t get me wrong. I LOVE the Roberts and have 2-3. I just happen to love Wildcats more! I don`t mind the extra work on the cases and such. As it turned out the barrel used in the test was ultimately turned onto a short action and became a 25-284. Still there too. Funny thing is though, that when the time comes to go kill a deer or something I still grab either the Souper or my old standby the 250 Sav AI. I just have the utmost trust in these two rifles. They fit me good and seem to work everytime I need them to.

Aloha, Mark

Mark, I have a weekness, it is called purchasing guns that someone spent a lot of cash building, and me purchasing at about 1/3 the price at gun shows. I have several non-standard chamberings in my gun room, but I would never recoup the costs of a personal build on a gun and then have to sell it. Just something to think about. I love my guns tht are chambered in something differant, but I know that I would loose money if I had to sell.

My vote goes to the .257 DGR. This is the brainchild of Duane Spooner of Duane's Gun Repair. It is a very well conceived design. Essentially, it is a more thoughtful .25 Souper. The case is designed so that a Nosler 100 grain ballistic tip seated to the base of the case gives a COL of just under 2.80". The case is 98% formed by taking .260 Rem brass once through the FL forming die. It holds a couple more grains powder than the .250-3000 Savage Improved and you get to use the very tough Lake City National Match .308 brass, if you want to. The end result is a very well concieved cartridge especially well suited for a short barreled, light rifle.

I am a big fan of the .257 Bob, but if you want to use a very short barrel [20 inches], then the Bob has too much case capacity IMHO. The .257 DGR gives you basically a .250 Savage Improved on steroids with almost no fireforming. And being able to use Lake City National Match brass is a big plus too if you are trying to milk that last bit of velocity out of the brass.

My .02 worth.


Jordan

quote:

Originally posted by Jordan:
My vote goes to the .257 DGR. This is the brainchild of Duane Spooner of Duane's Gun Repair. It is a very well conceived design. Essentially, it is a more thoughtful .25 Souper. The case is designed so that a Nosler 100 grain ballistic tip seated to the base of the case gives a COL of just under 2.80". The case is 98% formed by taking .260 Rem brass once through the FL forming die. It holds a couple more grains powder than the .250-3000 Savage Improved and you get to use the very tough Lake City National Match .308 brass, if you want to. The end result is a very well concieved cartridge especially well suited for a short barreled, light rifle.

I am a big fan of the .257 Bob, but if you want to use a very short barrel [20 inches], then the Bob has too much case capacity IMHO. The .257 DGR gives you basically a .250 Savage Improved on steroids with almost no fireforming. And being able to use Lake City National Match brass is a big plus too if you are trying to milk that last bit of velocity out of the brass.

My .02 worth.


Jordan

I meant to say "The case is designed so that a Nosler 100 grain ballistic tip seated to the base of the neck ..."


Jordan

I have decided to go with the 257 Roberts. I did some work with the magazine on my project rifle (a stainless Featherweight Win. mod. 70 short-action CRF in 22-250). After some very basic magazine mods, I can achieve a OAL cartridge length of roughly 2.95". Given that, the Roberts will work perfectly. I did have to work on the fixed-ejector and the bolt-stop to allow the cartridges to feed properly from both the right and left positions in the magazine. At this point, the action work is done and I am ready to send the barrel off for a rebore/rechamber/re-mark to 257 Roberts.

The Roberts is a great round and any of the 25s are fun to play with. Heck, I've got 2 25/06s and a Souper and am working on my fourth- a 336 Marlin rebarreled to 25/35. Love those quarter bores. Pedro

Dear Pedro!!
What you REALLY need to do is pick up one of the little C. Daly "Mini Mausers" or an old Sako Vixen and make up a 25/223 [or TCU] and see where the fun starts. Amazing accuracy!!

Aloha, Mark