i

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
what do you guys know about the .425 express

It’s a .300WM necked up for .423/.424 diameter bullet. Here’s a link to Google Book Search – Cartridges of the World – regarding the .425 Express:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UoWa4CeDOccC&pg=PA271&...t&resnum=7&ct=result

Hope this helps! Looks like it would work very well.

Jim

frank

i don't know how nit-picky you are but many of those listed are not based on the 300 Win Mag case. (Including the 425 Express which can be made from any of the belted magnum brass.)

If you are willing to say that those are 300WM based then there are a lot more to add to the list.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
lots of em around
358 somthing is there a wildcat out there ?
frank

Jack Whitworth a cohort of Fred Barnes used a full length blown out .358 Magnum as his go to deer and Elk rifle. Could get a steady rest from his pickup and shoot along way accross fields, canyons and such. roger

The 300 Win Mag (1963) was the last of the Winchester so called "short" magnums. (The 7mm Rem Mag was introduced in 1962).

All of them , of course, were in reality, based on earlier wildcat cartridges made from the 300 & 375 H&H. That's why they were called "short" magnums. Most young shooters today will not know what I am talking about when I mention a Short Magnum.

Ray

five

I'm not sure what you mean by "take offs" but the 458 Win Mag was the first of the Winchester short magnums, introduced in 1956.

The 264 and 338 came out in 1958.

Ray

five

I guess it all depends on how far back you want to go.

It's fair to say that all of the big belted cartridges (.532" rim) can trace their origin back to the 375 H&H. But, you can also trace the parentage of the 375 H&H to even earlier belted cartridges.

So where to stop? And what is the purpose of such an exercise? Except to a collector like me.

Ray

I'm in beautiful downtown Linden AZ.

I've been to Lone Pine several times. It's also a beautiful place. Years ago I used to fish for Golden Trout in the Sierra and Lone Pine was my jumping off point.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
bartshe did whitworth neck down a full 458 win mag case to 358 or what is the water capacity of the full blow out 358 case he wildcated

He used a full length.375 H&H. necked it down and blew it out.A guessed at useable capacity would be something close to 6.5 CCs

It was because of Jack and the memory of him that I designed and built the .358 x .404 IMP.roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Jack Whitworth a cohort of Fred Barnes used a full length blown out .358 Magnum as his go to deer and Elk rifle. Could get a steady rest from his pickup and shoot along way across fields, canyons and such. roger

I guess that would be kinda like a 358 STW ?
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
ya best pinch it off at some point the PMM looks good where do you guys get all this wildcat info

One of the better sources is AccuLoad 3.04 soft ware.IMHO, roger

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
thank you I am having one built will be here soon time to learn all about it
have a plan to collect a set of rifles based on the winchester mag case

264 win mag HAVE NOW
7mm rem is this a true win case ?
300 win mag HAVE NOW
338 win mag at some point lots of em around
358 somthing is there a wildcat out there ?
375 taylor next build
416 taylor HAVE NOW
425 express COMMING SOON
458 win mag HAVE NOW
458 lott HAVE NOW

are there any others ?

who developed this 425 wildcat ?

thanks again frank

Frank, of the '06-length short magnums, the .300 Win. Mag. is the oddball! It has a short neck, a slightly longer o/a case length, and longer head-to-shoulder length than the .338 Win Mag., 7mm Rem. Mag., (which is a .264 Win. mag. necked up to shoot 7mm bullets!), the .308 Norma, etc.

So, if you are looking for other cartridges made by necking the .300 Win. Mag. up or down, I believe EVERY ONE OF THEM is a wildat!

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
five

I'm not sure what you mean by "take offs" but the 458 Win Mag was the first of the Winchester short magnums, introduced in 1956.

The 264 and 338 came out in 1958.

Ray

I could have bought one of those first .458 Model 70 Africans at the Rod & Gun Club at Erding Air Force Base, Germany, in 1956 for $75.00! Should have gotten a dozen or so!

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
thank you I am having one built will be here soon time to learn all about it
have a plan to collect a set of rifles based on the winchester mag case


358 somthing is there a wildcat out there ?

The 358 Norma would be the easy way to go. about 50 thou longer at the shoulder & 20 thou overall case length. Alternatively, the 338 necked up to 358 without any other changes would also be fairly simple but would need custom dies. I've a feeling I've seen reference to a 358/338 Magnum, CH list a 35-338 Winchester which I'd guess wouldn't be too far off it.
Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
thank you I am having one built will be here soon time to learn all about it
have a plan to collect a set of rifles based on the winchester mag case

264 win mag HAVE NOW
7mm rem is this a true win case ?
300 win mag HAVE NOW
338 win mag at some point lots of em around
358 somthing is there a wildcat out there ?
375 taylor next build
416 taylor HAVE NOW
425 express COMMING SOON
458 win mag HAVE NOW
458 lott HAVE NOW

are there any others ?

who developed this 425 wildcat ?

thanks again frank

Jim Harvey developed a line of wildcats using the .429 (44) caliber bullets at least 50 years ago. 2" 458 necked down, 458 necked down (think 416 Taylor using 44 bullets) and a cylinder H&H necked down. I believe that he also worked with a .358 as well on the short case. These were called Magalaska magnums. The 2" was a "Junior" 458 length was a "Senior" and the full length H&H was a "Super senior". At that time he made bullets that were jacketed, swaged RN and not particularly stiff. They, however, did kill things. Today, the 2" version with stiff 44 pistol bullets may still work very well. This case with 300gr bullets will make 2400fps. The problem with the larger cases is getting good bullets for the velocities that can be generated. The "Super Senior" will marginally out run a 416 Rem as it has less taper and a shorter neck. Andy Runyan apparently used one of these at one time. I have a "Super Senior" that I had Hawk build some bullets for. 350gr rn that in the old Apex barrel will shoot easily under an inch. This series of cartridges was designed with the idea of using 44 pistol bullets as practice, but this is an idea that really never caught on. The real problem is having ".429 Magalaska Super Senior" stamped on your barrel. Needs a longer barrel just for the stamp.

The 425 Express and 416 Taylor are two of the best 40's in my opinion. The can fire a 400gr projectile at 2400fps, which is fast enough to do anything you need done. Here are couple of loads for it. I found 4895 seemed to work best in this cartridge.

400gr Barnes Solid
73gr H 4895
210M
2319fps

350gr Woodleigh or Barnes X
73gr H 4895
WLMR
2400fps

350gr Barnes X
74gr IMR 4895
WLMR
2510fps

350gr Barnes X
75gr RL15
210M
2382fps

I found that the 350 and 400 grain Barnes would harmonize with the 400 at 2300 and the 350 at 2300. Kudude

PS: The 350gr Barnes X is a killer.

I believe the Ruger 375 case about voids this whole thread...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I believe the Ruger 375 case about voids this whole thread...

No way, it just gives someone an excuse for another dozen rifles lol

If you REALLY want to get nit picky, there is also the 30-338WM wildcat which was actually offered by Remington for a while from their custom shop. The 264 and 338 have different neck lengths and shoulder locations. The 308 Norma mag is what the 300 Win Mag would have been, had the Norma not come out 3 years sooner. The 308 Norma and 30-338 Win Mag are nearly identical, while the 300 Win has the shorter neck and farther forward shoulder which really gained no increase in capacity to speak of. But, it let Winchester do a 30 cal on its case without basically copying another round and sticking their own name on it. A 35/338 or 358 Norma would be extremely similar, and quite powerful! I have also seen the 25/300, and I'm sure somebody, somewhere did a 243/300. Also again, I'm sure its out there but I've never found anything on it (i think it would be a GREAT wildcat) is a 9.3/338. It would be similar to the 35/338 but would offer the tried and true 286 .366 bullets.