Good Day Members
I posted this question on the re-loading department,

I am currently necking up a .375 H&H Magnum brass to a .404 Jeffery (.423) caliber to shoot in my .404 Jeffery. I do this forming in three steps. But I want to design/build/make a fire forming templet (barrels action ) to shoot all these many brass(80x .375 H&H Magnum) through the fire forming processes, I do not want to do all these firing in my .404 Jeff. I really would like to hear from members thinking like me...

Regards

Gert

A few photos of the fire forming .375 H&H Magnum brass to the .404 Jeff I can shoot now in my .404 Jeffery .

While I'm not doing your caliber ,I have done many fire forms using a barreled action with a worn out barrel.
I use the pistol powder/Cream of wheat loads to 'Iron Out" the parent case to be close to the new caliber. I follow up with a lighter loading using a cheap or cast bullet to finish the final forming by firing into my bullet trap.
I do this for 8x56R,7.62x45, 8mm Remington Magnum, 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 MS and .50 Alaskan.
I get very good results with almost no lost cases.

MAN, I think I would try ANYTHING rather than go through that process...

Have you tried 375 RUM cases? Base might be a little tight depending on your chamber...the ones I have measure 0.545" at the base and all you would need to do is run them into the sizer die and load up.

Good day Sir
It is extremely difficult to get hold of 375 RUM cases in South Africa...now even more so, it seems although we do not resides under the ITAR regulations we as a country is treated that way...to America it seems the whole Africa is a breeding ground for terrorists...maybe it is understandable since our current government tends to lean to the Chinese/Russians for assistance...

I have a fire forming gun, for lack of a better term. I use it to make any cartridge that is in need of drastic changes or hard on barrels. I use a ruger #1 action and buy cheap take off barrels in the proper caliber that I chamber for the desired cartridge. I removed the extractor from the action so I don't have to cut the extractor slot on each barrel or dis- assemble the action to change barrels. I use a cleaning rod to pop out the cases.

I've done the same as max using just about any piece of scrap barrel or steel rod lying around, ~6-8" long threaded and chambered, using a fast burning pistol or shotgun powder and a breakfast cereal grain like grits, corn meal, etc and a wad of paper towel or other wadding stuffed in to hold the whole mess from shifting.

For a case that size I would start with about 15 gr Bullseye, fill the case with cereal and go bang. Increase the powder charge a bit at a time until the case irons out well. After that I just load up with full hunting loads and go shooting.

Now days I just use the rifle to fire form and don't bother with the stub barrel mess. I've done this many times for many wildcats and reformed a couple of hundred cases for several small cal wildcats with no perceptible problems with wear or accuracy...just a head full of cereal when the wind changed.

Luck

Thank you kindly for the informative replies, it really is much appreciated...I am definitely going to build a fire form rifle...to fire form .375 H&H Magnum to my 404 Jeffery....my next project regarding fire forming will be to fire form the .375 Ruger brass to 8x68 S brass...it will be about $2 saving on every one brass fire formed...a big saving in my eyes...the 8x68S brass really are few and far between in South Africa and extremely expensive as well...I really like the fire forming exercises ..it keeps me contemplating new procedures and methods...

The 375 Ruger cartridge is 0.532" od...the 8x68 is 0.524"...not to mention the 8x68 is LONGER than the Ruger case by ~0.078" which would make your neck ~0.257" ...you would just need to RESIZE the Ruger case, NOT fire form it, and that might be a tad tough...

Sizing down a piece of solid brass by that amount might strain things...I don't know for sure if what you are wanting to do is viable, but all the sizing down of a solid bases I've tried has cause problems with broken presses and cases stuck in sizing dies hard enough to need stuffing in a lathe and turning out.

Maybe someone has already tried this and can give you some pointers...

Personally, if this was me and I just forgot the short neck thing, I would just chuck the Ruger case in a lathe and turn down to the required amount, THEN RESISZE...better yet I would just rechamber to 8mm Rem Mag, 325 WSM or a wildcat 8mm RUM...you seem to have a plethora of mag brass that will work, I don't know about the RUM or WSM cases...I would just pay the brass price considering all the BS you need to go through to save a buck...what about the cost of powder for fire forming, time involved having a case with a weak junction as indicated by the pictures...have you even sectioned a case and measured???

What do you think happened to the brass when it was blown out at that point?

You're making me nervous with your approach to this problem that has one very simple solution, but...

Good luck

I have fireform barrels and I have most of mine in 22 or 6mm boresize. I don't use bullets, so the bore size is not important. I drill and ream the bore a couple inches longer than the throat. I use a very stiff load of Bullseye and a wax plug. I do have and used to manufacture case forming dies to take a .542 case down to 14 cal if necessary. There are 11 sets of die bushings in my set. I can post photos tomorrow if necessary.

Butch - Would you post the photos of the forming dies.
Thanks

Glenn

This is my original set. I added two larger bushings to be able to handle the Rigby and other magnum cases.

This is a couple examples. The mag cases in this photo were 458 mag basic brass. I believe one has a 22 bullet and the other a 17.

Playing.

Good day to you Butch
Will it be possible to go through all the different processes showing us how you do this fire forming using your equipment...this is something I would really like to see...

Gert

I am shooting the .375/404 Jeffery fire formed brass for the fifth time coming Saturday...after the tenth time I will cut the brass open and see what changes when measuring the brass again...these brass has been shot with full hunting loads...I will upload the whole process...

Thanks very much Butch.

quote:

Originally posted by bglenn:
Thanks very much Butch.

Haven't seen you in quite a while. I hope you are doing well.
Gert, The process is very easy if you have one formed case to start. One thing to remember is you start with the largest bushing first and go down one size at a time. Don't skip a size bushing or you will crush the case. I put a formed case in the press to start and then put the largest bbushing in the die or bushing holder. I pull the handle all the way down and then screw the bushing down until it touches the shoulder. Remove the formed case and put your new unformed brass in the press. Use lot of case lube and make your first forming press. Keep going smaller one step at a time until you get just smaller that your end caliber size. Take it out of the press and cut it to the proper length if it is longer. I have cheap fire forming barrels. I use a stiff load of fast powder and a wax plug to seal off the neck. It make take a couple firings. Sometimes you have a very thick neck, I ream the inside if necessary and have also turned to od of the necks if necessary.
I hope you are following what I'm saying.

A dumb question. Does the holder of the bushings mount in the bottom of your press? Are the bushings that have a radius for reducing the diam. of the neck? Also are the bushings that have a angle on them for pushing the shoulder back?
Thanks

Doing pretty good, can't complain too much.

I must have been sleepy last night. I see that the big part screws into the top of the press, a bushing slips into it then the small part screws in to keep the bushing in place.

Remember case forming dies get you to the appropriate size and shape only. You will fireform to get the right case taper and shoulder angle. Use your purchased dies to finish your sizing after the fireform. Of course you can screw the die holder up and down and also let the bushing float if you have long cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
MAN, I think I would try ANYTHING rather than go through that process...

Have you tried 375 RUM cases? Base might be a little tight depending on your chamber...the ones I have measure 0.545" at the base and all you would need to do is run them into the sizer die and load up.

Any of the RUM cases. They are based on the 404J.

Buy 404Bertram brass from Bertram directly if no agent in SA.