I now have a 45 Lapua. My smith used a .338 Lapua reamer with live pilot replaced by a .458 pilot to do the chamber body, then a .458 WinMag reamer to do the neck and throat. The headspace guage is the .338 Lapua go guage.

Pacific Tool and Guage does list the 45/.338 Lapua Magnum as a wildcat reamer for which they keep the specs on file for reamer orders.

However, with the live pilot .338 Lapua reamer and various pilots, one can make other wildcats such as .375, .458, etc.

I can use an engraving pen to mark a "4" and a "5" on either side of the Lapua shield on the case head and thus have properly headstamped brass that matches my barrel stamping: 45/.338 Lapua.

I can have perfect new ammo by necking up the Lapua cases in two easy steps, and seating and crimping the bullet on the cannelure with a 460 Wby seater die that has been shortened by cutting it off just above the belt, about 1/4" shortening of the die.

A .338 Lapua sizing die with the neck drilled out with a 1/2" carbide drill bit ought to work as a sizing die for the case body, if reloading of fired brass is on the agenda.

A 460 Wby sizing die, shortened appropriately, will work to deprime and size the neck enough to grasp the bullet prior to seating. Etc. ...

Or I can just send three fired cases to Redding and have them make some dies.

Or are there any 45 Lapua dies out there, since this has turned out to be a "standard" wildcat that must have appeared as soon as the .338 Lapua brass became available?

My rifle is sort of a shop mule CZ 550 .458 converted to 45 Lapua.

When I get it worked out as to loads and reloading dies, I might build a fully custom 45 Lapua and put the 45 caliber Dakota and Rigby to shame, not to mention the powder puff 400 H&H and 404 Jeffery.

It is the ultimate 45, the 45 Lapua, with all the feeding and "Best Brass" attributes of the .338 Lapua.

No belt.

No rebated rim.

Slick feeding Rigby body taper.

20 degree per side Lapua shoulder angle.

0.027" step per side at the shoulder/neck juncture.

2.666" brass length with room to seat a VLD bullet way out, or put a spacer in the magnum box for "stubby" 500 grainers crimped on the cannelure, or make it fit a Mauser 98 with custom box.

Since it has .338 Lapua headspace, I can simply load some .338 Lapua and fire them, letting the .338 bullets, or whatever plugs, yaw down range to easily fireform brass.

Gratulations, Dagaron!!
This sounds VERY interresting to me, as I told you before.
I would love to do this on a M98 as soon as I can get my hand on a action.

How fast can you push a 500 grainer??
I belive this one beats the .458 Lott, am I right??

RAB,

No doubt that the Lapua calibres and a CZ 416 are a top choice. Kind of like classy versions of the Remington Ultras.

I think the 375 Lapua would be very nice.

One area where the 45 Lapua will be better than the Dakota/Rigby/Weatherby is with mid range reduced loads due to its smaller case capacity.

At the moment either the CZ in 416 or the Weatherby Mark V Synthetic in 30 and 338/378 open the door both easily and cheaply to big power fun

Mike

I thought that the 338 Lapua is very similar to the 30-378 Weatherby except without the belt. If that is the case then 45 Lapua is just another veriation of the 460 WB/450 Rigby/450 Dakota. Do you have a drawing for the 45 Lapua? Thanks.

Arild,
Great idea, that M98 custom in 45 Lapua. I would like to have one of those too. An M98 with a drop box is what I will be figuring on. I must say that you were the original source of my idea a couple of years ago with your mention of the Lapua wildcats. Unbeknownst to me heretofor, somebody has been doing these for a long time apparently.

Mike,
I would rather forget the Sako too, TRGS/M995/whatever, but the Weatherby Mark V with a vertical stack drop box (available now as an aftermarket accessory from Weatherby), or the CZ 550 Magnum, both make good sense to me. Yep, a .375 Lapua ought to be sweet, same case capacity as Saeed's .375/404, but shorter in length. One of those will be in the works too.

BTW,
I fireformed some brass today.

.338 Lapua brass is right about 2.720" in length, new/unfired, made by Lapua. Great stuff.
Max: 2.724"
Trim to: 2.714"

When one necks it up first to .375 and then to .458 it shortens to 2.666" average.

When one fires a new .338 Lapua in a .458 Lapua chamber, the fireformed brass averages 2.694" long when blown out thusly from .338 to .458, without the use of a tapered neck expander set.

I think I have a good chamber in the .45 Lapua "shop mule" CZ 550.

Next loads will be for real with either max .458 Lott in RL-15 and working up,

or, more likely,

minimum 460Wby minus 10% in IMR-4350 or RL-19 and working up.

What do you guys think regarding load prediction? I gotta learn to do the AccuLoad thing. I fly by the seat of my pants.

But I gotta do some 470 Mbogo max loads with RL-15 next.

This is all great fun and darn good shock therapy to ease the doldrums. I do not take any of it too seriously, especially the 400 H&H. So don't hold me to any time table or deadlines.

But, dang! What a great line of cartridges can be had from wildcatting the .338 Lapua, a direct descendant of the .416 Rigby, "The King Who Has Clothes."

If the .338 Lapua is a good leopard and plains game rifle, then the 45 Lapua ought to be tops on Simba and the big stuff.

Or one could stick with the .416 Rigby for everything. Just don't expect me to kiss up to the 404 Jeffery or 400 H&H. I got this thing about keeping my pinky fingers flexed (not extended) when shooting.

Ming,
No drawing here. Pacific Tool and Guage would have a reamer drawing.

There is no mystery to it. Look at a .338 Lapua. Neck it up to .458. That is all. It uses the .338 Lapua headspace guages.

Cheers!

What's the water capacity?
I'll bet it's just under 160gr, and I'll bet you can get 2400 from a 500gr bullet at max loads.
2350 should be well within safe reach.
One thing, that looks like a short neck for such a fat bullet. Did you consider sharpening the shoulder to get a little more pullet hold? Just going from the 19deg (?) to 25 deg would get you .41" or so, instead of what I figure is about a .27" neck, right?
Not that you should rechamber, but what are your thoughts on it?
...or is the neck longer than I'm thinking?

When I was making 358 Norma cases from 338win cases, I put a punch in my bench vise, then put a case over the top and used a number punch to mark the case head. It looks pretty good and should be more uniform than an ingraving tool.
Just my thoughts............

Bwana-be,
The neck is 0.435" long when the case is as short as 2.666".

When the brass is 2.694" long then the neck grows to 0.463".

It has right around a "caliber neck."

When you neck up the .338 Lapua 20 degree per side shoulder you get a much longer neck.

This cartridge is perfect as is.

The 460 Weatherby has about 145 grains of water capacity.

The fireformed 45 Lapua I just checked has 122 grains of water capacity.

45 Lapua is less than a quarter inch shorter than the 460 Weatherby: (2.908" - 2.694 = 0.214") or (2.908" - 2.666" = 0.242"). Let us just call the max length 2.680" with trim to length 2.670" for some nice round numbers that will fit in my chamber. I think the 2.694" length is just starting to intrude into the freebore zone of the throat. The throat is that of the .458WinMag in my "shop mule."

The Lapua case has a thick, strong head and more taper than the Weatherby.

Maybe this cartridge will be an efficiency champ like the .416 Taylor?

I think it will get 2400 fps with 500 grainers at modest pressures.

Perfectomundo, and slick feeding, flawless function. No improvement needed. This is a hunting cartridge. That .416 Rigby body taper, no belt, and full diameter rim add to its appeal.

Even the 450 Rigby is blown out some in the body and shoulder, has less taper, and is longer, close to 460 Wby capacity, and probably a thinner case head. Not so this baby.

LAR45,
I had discussed this idea before with the gunsmith. Either a mandrel to slip the case over or a dummy chamber in a scrap barrel segment, or both was suggested for placing in the vise to control the case when stamping the numerals by hand.

He has the punches. I need to get some of my own for this simple procedure. all I need is a "4" and a "5."

I am glad to hear it worked for you and did not roughen the case with extruded brass so as to impair function. That small amount of brass ought to smear away just fine in fireforming. Thanks.

Nice to hear about the neck. Makes sense, now that I think more on it; the shoulder endpoint shrinks back as the caliber grows. Very good.
Sounds like a great case, and sounds like you're very proud of it.
Hope it works as planned!
We'd all love to hear the results, I'm sure.
If I've got you right, this case is .544" at the shoulder, which is about 2.16" from base.
The 260 Short is .56" at 2.07" from base.
Seems you could guess around the same performance as the 460 Short, no? Maybe a hair over?

I'm building a 30 and a 338 improved on the 338 Lapua too. The 475 seems another fine consideration, the cases are built hell for stout, much more than that of the Wby, Rigby or Ultra Mags.

Casehead is .250" thick instead of .200" on all the others. Case walls at the very base are .070" - .080" thick vs. .040" - .050" thick on the others too. .017" thick at the top of the body vs. .013" - .015" on the others. At any given point up on the body from the base it is .005" thicker than the others too.

This case proved to be built even stronger than the new Chey-Tac case was, it was about the same dims as all the others mentioned above, but with 164gr capacity that's all. My next canadate for a LR 338 variant.

I see a 475 on this case in my future. My 416wby will have to do till then.

Bwana-be,
Yep, you got it.

The shoulder starts at 2.157" from the base, and ends at 2.231" from the base.

Shoulder diameter is 0.544" and the neck diameter is 0.490" at the juncture. That is 0.027" step and 20 degree angle per side.

If I trim the fireformed cases to 2.690" to uniform the case mouths, the neck will be 0.459" long.

So, I am going to consider the max length to be 2.700" with trim to length being 2.690".

The smith told me he ran the neck to 2.720" COL, so I will probably never have to trim a case, except to chamfer, deburr, uniform/square, etc.

I am assuming the Clymer reamer used for the neck has 0.460" of freebore and a 2 degree leade angle.

The 460 Short A-Square is 0.200" shorter than this case, has less taper, thinner brass, and the controversial belt. Loads for the 460 Short might be perfect for the 45 Lapua.

Wonder why the 45 Lapua never caught on? It seems to be perfect in every way. Of course one does have to use the best brass in the world to make it, .338 Lapua Magnum, so maybe it used to be scarce when it first came out. Not so anymore. If you look around you can find it for about $140/100 cases, which is cheaper than lesser quality stuff in many big bores.

Brent,
Thanks for the case thickness measurements. I knew it was good stuff, but hadn't seen it quantified like that before.

Cheers!

I'm just wandering;
Can this be done with a fiffty caliber to, and still have a little shoulder left. Or does the case have to be improved first??

I just measured the neck DIA on a loaded round on a 500 Jeffery loaded with a 750gr A-Max, my brother's building one right now. It measured .540", below the shoulder it was .6", so that will work fine.

You'd have to improve the 338 Lapua case with minimum body taper like I did on my 30/338 LI and seat the bullets into the lands to headspace on and form them if you were using .510" bullets, there just isn't enough shoulder DIA left without doing so IMHO, should be plenty if it was 30-40 degrees and .570" DIA at the shoulder like mine though. Now you got me thinkin! Another neck and throater used with my reamer, hmmmm.... 60 bucks!

Sinclair and Bruno's Shooters Supply has the 338 Lapua brass for $130 a hundred, haven't found a place that beat that yet... anyone else?

Lost River has and sells the 408 Chey-Tac brass for $125 a hundred... if I remember correctly.

Great guys!!
This is a thought that I've been playing for sometime now. I would love to do this on a M98 action.
Just thinking loudly here:
A switch barrel Mauser M98, slightly opened magazine opening, using a box magazine;
One barrel for a 300 Lapua,
One barrel for a 375 Lapua,
and one barrel for .500 Lapua??

Please let me know if any of you figures out how this can be done.

Arild,
I think that changing the .338 Lapua case would kill the charm of these cartridges.

.458 is as big as you can go without changing the case by blowing it out, etc. Certainly a .475 Lapua is easy enough. Look at the 470 Mbogo, a blown out and lengthened .416 Rigby.

The 50 Lapua would be flirting with difficulty. I would sure like to hear how anyone has done this before.

I hear that Lapua of Finland did offer a 300 Lapua Magnum with proper headstamped brass at one time.

I like the idea of a .375 Lapua, done before as the 9.5 x 69mm Tornado.

The 45 Lapua might be called the 11.6 x 69mm Hurricane, by comparison.
I am rained out of the rifle range today.

DR, here's the specs on the 12.7x64 H&K:
.5827" base
.5709" at shoulder
2.1260" body length
30 deg shoulder
2.5197" case length, presumably for a 3.35" COL.
.511" bullet dia.

I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to hear how this sucker shoots.
Since the LM shoulder is at 2.1614", and case length is 2.7244" you could blow this out into above cartridge, but you're right, you'd have none of the aesthetics of that tapered case.

Bwana-be,
I looked at the Ken Howell book listing for your 500 HK. It has 30 degrees and 0.014" step at each side of the shoulder.

The 500 A2 has 35 degrees and 0.016", IIRC, and the belt to boot.

The slightly thicker Lapua brass would make neck turning a must to maintain what little shoulder there would be on a 50 Lapua. Too fussy for me to mess with.

Could we just turn the belts off of 500 A2 cases and have a go at it in a magnum action? I think I would not care to, but it would be a better shoulder than the 500 HK, the .411 Hawk, etc.

The 45 Lapua with the .416 Rigby case taper and shoulder of 20 degrees and 0.027" step per side is the flawlessly functional big bore with best brass available.

I suppose the 500 HK would work in a Mauser 98, and I might prefer it to a 500 Jeffery, if I were feeling like doing some fussy reloading.

Could you post a photo of this round?

Doug,
We got off on a tangent with the 500 HK ... hmm ... a 50 Lapua on a blown out case with 45 degree shoulder angle and about 0.015" step per side ... hmmm ... like the shoulder of a 600 Rimless Nitro Express ... hmmmm ... might be do-able for the handloader ... hmmmmm ... But the 45 Lapua is so easy, fuss proof, and who needs more in a hunting rifle?

If you mean a picture of the 45 Lapua, well that is a good point. I must surely do this. However, the wife ran off to Florida with the new Olympus digital camera (capable of close up detail work?) to visit her sick parents. I will see to it later.

I really have not been much into posting photos, but the closeups of a cartridge lineup are great eye candy for gunnutz.