how about those .303 british wildcats? They seem to be pretty close to the 7x57 improved cases. Where would a guy get reamers made?

Hey Oddball,

Clymer makes reamers for everything!

Good Luck,

Smoker

I have a 303/25 on a P14 Enfield action. Performance is very close to the 257 Roberts. I know there are several inproved versions; 303/25 Epps and I have one old rifle that is marked 25 Westerner which is also an improved 303/25

There are several reasons the .303 British never became popular in the U.S.A. for wildcatting purposes.Probably the greatest reason is due to the larger case capacity of the .444 Marlin.The Marlin case was readily availible since it's advent in the mid 1960s.A lot of the .303 Br. ammo imported at that time was Berdan primed ,corrosive ammo.

Before the .444 Marlin was produced,the 30/40 Krag case was popular for the same reasons,more readily availible and more capacity.

By the time the .303 Br. became readily availible in the mid 1960s ,the .444 Marlin case was already being wildcatted.

The greatest boon to the .444 wildcats was the introduction of the Contender.The larger capacity of the .444 meant the
pressure could be kept to an acceptible level while achieving the desired velocity.

WC

Blown out straight, the capacity of the .303 is about 3 gn under the .444, hardly noticeable. The loss in capacity would be partly compensated by the smaller head size which would allow for a higher operating pressure in the Contender.



Your thoughts regarding availability of brass in the 1960's sounds like the reason, though.



The number of rifles chambering .303 far exceeds those in .444 and derivatives. I've heard rumors Marlin will drop the .444 before long, so I think I'd base my wildcat on the .303.



Karl

asdf,

Here in Oz there have always been a lot of wildcats based on the .303 case. This was particularly so in the 1950s and 60s when modern sporting rifles were hard to come by and surplus SMLEs "grew on trees".

First off there were several .303/22 cartridges of differing lengths. These were the .303/22 Wasp, .303/22 Sprinter and .303/22 Full-Length. Then there was the .303/243,.303/25, .303/25 Magnum, .303/270, .303/270 Magnum, 7.7x54 and .303/35. These 'magnum' cartridges were, in fact, improved cases and most of the other .303 wiildcats have also been improved at some time or another.

BwanaBob,

I've been pondering a blownout 303/33 and 303/35 for an action I have. Anyone down there still making dies and reamers for these old wildcats from down under? (I need to get acquainted with such sources -- I'm moving to Melbourne this year.)

Karl

There are approx. 30 wildcat/improved cartridges based on the 303 British case. I am not aware of anything made for bullets less than .224, but they run from 22 to 375.

A few years ago I documented 26 in a book called the Accurate Lee Enfield. In Canada at least, the most popular are the 303 Epps and 6.5 Epps. The Epps line was developed in the late forties and has a 35 degree shoulder and less body taper. Approx. .010" from the base to the line at the bottom of the shoulder.

Of note, the original version of the 338 JDJ was done with a 303 case. When JD found a way to form a 338 JDJ case in one pass with a 444 case, he switched.

With the newer powders, many of these modifications have come into their own. Nowadays, a single shot Ruger makes an excellent platform for conversion.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

Karl,
Simplex still list forming dies for 303/33, not sure about reamers but Sprinter may be the go.
Cheers...
Con

Thank you, Steve, for the note. I had already looked over your site and had noted the 33 and 35 Epps. I haven't seen any reamers for these listed at places like JGS, etc, but I'll look further. I read someplace (here?) that Epps's shop is now owned by someone else. Ken Waters also did a .33 on the .303 as well, and from your description of the Epps, it is nearly the same.

Any idea why Jones went with the more expensive .444 brass? On your site, it is mentioned .303 brass is somewhat thin. As mentioned above, I've heard no gripes about case life, but I don't know many .303 shooters.

Con, I'll look for more information on Simplex and Sprinter -- thanks.

Karl

Karl,

I don't believe that anyone in Oz is providing reamers. Most Aussies, when they get the urge for a custom/wildcat reamer, order them from Clymber or JGS. Over the years I've bought about five or six from Clymer and just recently I was looking around for someone to make reamers locally but drew a blank - so back to Clymer I go. People here have the skills and the equipment but no-one wants to be bothered.

Similarly, while Simplex do list some unusual calibres, they are not a reliable source and most Aussies order from CH (or, in the past, from the RCBS custom shop).

My suggestion is to buy the dies and reamers in the US before you come out here.

Karl,

Yes I should have been clearer. Simplex make dies etc... and they can be unreliable in supply, just because it's listed doesn't mean it's available. Sprinter manufacture barrels in South Australia (and used to rebore too!). I believe that they may also have existing reamers for some of the old 303 based wildcats, but there's no guarantee. Somewhere in Australia you will find the reamer your after but BwanaBob hit the nail on the head, if you definately want a 303/35 or 303/338 and aren't prepared to search, get the stuff direct from the States.

Cheers...

Con

Hi Karl. Epps Sporting Goods has been owned for the past 5 yrs by George Winkel. How he ended up with it is a sad story really. No hostile takeover or insolvency, just bad family fortunes.
Ellwood had 2 daughters. Both died young. One was taken by cancer and the other by an accident. The second daughter and her husband were running the business, but after his wife died, the son in law wanted nothing to do with the shop. Ellwood took it back when he was in his 80s and put it up for sale. George bought it after talking with Ellwood. George was on vacation and dropped by the shop. The two got talking and he bought it, lock, stock and barrel.

WRT JD, he is fond of 444 brass for his wildcats. I think that he just wanted to keep things simple and stock the 444. It's easier not having to keep too many different kinds of brass for his cases. He never told me why, but that's my conclusion. He did say that there was virtually do difference between the 2 types WRT performance. Having stronger brass though can't hurt.

You might want to email Clymers and ask if they still have any of the older plans or reamers available. Ellwood used Canadian suppliers for the most part, but there were many gun shops in the US that offered wildcat/improved chamberings based on the 303. The reamers had to come from somewhere. Back in the 40s and 50s, there were only a handful of companies worldwide that would do this work. Some shops made their own.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

...I've heard of a .270/.303

Thanks all. Steve, I will check with Clymer. I agree with your estimation of the performance potential of these wildcats. Both QuickLoad and the Powley Computer indicate great potential. It's nice to note how quickly the designers of military smokeless cartridges (and their sporting derivatives) all arrived at the same solution back around 1890. The case capacity of all the "first generation" military cartridges was about 60 gn, give or take a few grains. The formula still works today, a bit better even, given the greater range of powders now available.



As to reamers from Australia: there's not that many reamer makers here in the US, and given that Australia has 1/15 the population, it's not too surprising no one in Oz has bothered to specialize in chamber reamers. There's a great deal of mechanical talent down under -- I still marvel at the one man shop I visited in Adelaide which made replicas of the old penny-farthing style bicycles; that's not something easily found here either.

Here is a photo comparison of some of the 303 wildcats for case length . I missed the 6mm-303 Epps and the 303-25 Rimless ( rim turned off in a lathe) and the 303 - 243 and 303 -270. And definately variants of all of them .







in order from L to R





22/303 Enfield ; 22 Sprinter Tunney ;22-303 Sprinter ; unknown ;22-303-4000 Black ;Super 303-25 commercial version ;7.7 x 54R commercial ; 375 Epps . Hope this is helpfull.

470Rigby, I'll send you that message after I settle in. I'll need most the services of a good stock maker. I'll be bringing one, possibly two, barreled actions with me. (Well, of course, I'll be having them forwarded from the U.S. once I clear the paperwork hassles down under.) Thanks.

Karl

It appears you Australian folks name your wildcats in reverse of us Americans. That is naming parent case first as we name bore size first.

Otto - absolutely correct! Bit like the English system where the parent case headsize is given first, then the projectile size. eg 450/400.

Karl - We have two World Class Stockmakers working in Melbourne. Send me an e-mail at elastech@bigpond.com.au when you arrive and I will show you around the gun scene in Melbourne. 470R