Two days ago I build a .416 RUM for a friend of mine. It's built on a Remington 700 action with a Krieger Chromoly 1 1/4" straight barrel (they had it in stock) 26" finish length. He broke it in yesterday and also shot a group that he sent me a picture of. It was .504" with 350 Barnes X's @ 2600fps (we had no idea where to start for loads so he used starting loads for a Rigby). He went back home and stoked it up a bit. The top loads for the 300's were 3150fps but he said it shot better around 3050fps (approx. 1/2"). The top load for the 350's was 2900fps with similar accuracy. The gun seems to really prefer H4831 over the other powders tried (R22 and R19). He was out of 4350 so that is the next one to try. The gun was put in a HS Precision stock of mine that has a 1 1/4" barrel channel and a bedding block. So the rifle was unbedded with 8 lbs of barrel hanging on the action (not my idea). The finished weight was 14lbs. He did say that the recoil was substantially more than a standard .416 Rem though. According to my Barnes manual this case is right with a .416 Weatherby if not edging it out, especially with the lighter bullets.

Next on the list to try is a .458 RUM. I have even been thinking of making a straight walled case in .505 or .510. It sure would make a big bore a lot cheaper to shoot (less powder and WAY cheaper cases) and be able to fit in a greater variety of actions.

That's some serious horsepower. Best keep using the X bullets at those speeds. I don't happen to have a ft/lb calculator at hand, can you lay out the energy numbers for the accurate loads? And can you also include the amount of powder you used?

The muzzle energy figures are:



300gr @ 3150 = 6603 ft-lb

300gr @ 3050 = 6190 ft-lb

350gr @ 2900 = 6530 ft-lb



I too would very much like to know how much H4831, Rel19, and Rel22 he was using.



Scott

I will ask him tomorrow what the powder charges were. He has been getting some erratic performance from his brass. He can shoot 5 or 6 rounds that function perfectly with no pressure signs and then one that sticks in the chamber. I told him to weigh his cases so we'll see what he comes up with.

As a side note: He and I shot a few rockchucks with it today. He drilled the lead out of a 350 Speer magtip and used it on the first chuck of the day. It was pretty impressive. Then a few chucks later he made one of the most spectacular shots I had ever seen. It was 119yds up hill from us. At the shot it launched the chuck in the air at least 30 feet. I watched it through my binocs and I had time to drop my binocs and still see the chuck going up with the naked eye .

... must be some badass chucks to need a 416..........sounds like fun

He was shooting the starting Rigby loads for H4831 (101gr) with the 350 Speers and X's. The speed is around 2900fps. He shot R19 with the 300X's. I cant remember what the charge was though. I'll have to ask him again. I think it was around starting Rigby loads as well.

IdahoCTD,

I was thinking about something on those lines as well. Picked up a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott and was going to open it out to 458 RUM but after doing the load developement in the Lott, 500 gr to 2350 fps out of the 9 lb rifle, I think I will keep it as is. Groups are under 1.5" at 100 yards with iron sights so I can not complain.

Your comments about the 416 RUM case being the equal to or slightly greater then the 416 WBY confused me a bit. Perhaps the velocities produces are similiar but the WBY case is dramatically larger in capacity then the RUM case. If both are loaded to the same chamber pressure, the WBY will run a full 100 fps faster then the RUM, as will the Rigby with modern high pressure loads.

I agree that the RUM is much more userfriendly in the selection of actions to build on.

I've also been looking at building a 416 or 458 WSM on a light short action such as the Ruger M77. Would come close to matching the Taylor and Win Mag in a shorter lighter package.

Good data, let us know how the 458 project goes!

Good SHooting!!!

50

I get a hair more MV from my Ruger Mag in 416 WBY, but it has a 23" bbl not 26".

I get 2700 with the 400gr X bullet, but 2650 with the 400 A-Frame at 65,000 psi with RL22, I should try RL25 or Retumbo!

I think the WBY still has an edge, but brass $$ is much less for the Ultra, and it has no belt. I should have left mine a Rigby and gave it a stab before rechambering it. I'm a speed freak though!

50,

Yeah that is what I meant. Velocity wise it appears to be the equal. Granted my buddies barrel could be a fast one too. I fully realize the Weatherby stuff is considerably larger. I have a 30-378 WBY IMP that has shot 150gr BT's over 4k and 165's around 3900 using 125+ grains of WC872.

My 458 RUM wont be a light rifle for sure. It will probably be a Lilja #8 or heavier. Weight doesnt bother me as much as recoil. Not to mention I'd like to shoot a few rockchucks with it so it has to be somewhat bag friendly. You have to have enough gun to stop those rabid charges ya know .

Bret Moffitt,

I just developed some custom ammo for a customer this last faal for an upcoming trip to Africa using the exact rifle you have but left in the 416 Rigby.

he said he wanted modern performance and as much as we could safely get so I loaded up his 400 gr A-Frames to an honest 2700 fps with 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards, basically using 416 WBY load data.

I loaded up twenty test rounds for the customer to try at my range before I loaded the entire lot. Good thing to because he shot two of the rounds and said he wanted nothing to do with the rifle. We went back to the shop and I threw together some 2400 fps load with the same bullet and he fell back in love with his Rigby.

Point being, the Rigby can be as nasty or comfortable as you want, as can the 416 WBY with correct loads.

Good Shooting!!!

50

IdahoCTD,

Out of 26" barrels and using anything lighter then the heavy for cailber bullets, the RUM case will usually get within 100 fps of the much larger WBY case.

Add two more inches of barrel or use extra heavy bullets and the big WBY does have more of an advantage.

In a hunting rifle, there isn't enough difference to really even compare, both are real cannons and very useful in my mind when used correctly.

Bet your 30-378 WBY load usin gthe 150 gr BT's is a real chuck popper.

I like to land the 750 gr A-Max bullets on chucks launched at 2750 fps. The chucks really do not come apart, but the rocks behind them do after the hit. Really easy to spot your own shots at 1500 yards as well, just wait for the 10 foot dust cloud.

Good Shooting!!!

50

At the time, I had a pile more load data for the WBY version than I did the Rigby, only reason I decided to rechamber really. Wouldn't ya know though, soon as I had it done I began to find more and more hotter loads for the Rigby, hell the new Barnes manual finally listed some for modern rifles now.. Oh well, guess I could get another barrel from Ruger if I REALLY wanted the Rigby again.

I worked up loads with the 400gr A-Frame when I did the X bullet. I used RL22 in both but got stopped at about 113-114gr with the Swift, about 2700-2720. Pressure was a tad too high and belts would keep on expanding until I dropped back to 111gr at 2650. I tried all kinds of charge weights but never could get them to group like the X bullet. They'd group 1-1/4 no matter what load I used, never changed a dime. Killed my Moose that fall with it at lased 640 yards laying prone from the hillside over the swamps. The bullet went though the onside shoulder and exited the offside ribs. Dropped like a rock! Think I had 17.75 MOA dialed into the 3.5-10x40 VXIII for my zero. I was using the EXPENSIVE factory load with Swifts on that kill. They also clocked at 2650-2670. My 400gr X load shot a 3" group at 700 yards when I was getting the drops on it, 5" at 600 yards. Shoots on average about .7 MOA on out though.

I've gots some GSC 330gr HV boattails to try this year, hope the BC is accurate on these, they should really friggin smoke!

Brett Moffitt,

Seems like alot of abuse to take for a long range hammer. One of the big 338 class rounds and even the huge 300 mags will offer more retained velocity and energy at those ranges, not to mention have half the bullet drop.

I to am a fan of bullet weight for big game but the 338-378 or 338-416 Imp would be my choice for a long range hammer. The mighty 378 WBY is also amazine but getting into more recoil then I like when the same thing can be accomplished with the 338 class big magnums.

Of course, I like the WBY case, I do not like WBY rifles at all, to hard to get to shoot little bitty groups, strong as hell but to finicky for me.

Good Shooting!!!

50

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I think we've started getting into some other cartridges. Bullet selection, especially with higher BCs, might be more limited in this, but how about a big 358 long-range hamme? There's the Norma at the low end and STA or RUM wildcats at the high end. I'm sure a 378Wby would make a great 358 case - BOOM!

Fiftydriver,
I'm using the 30-338 Lapua Imp or the 300 Ultra now, like you say, better performance past about 300-400 yards, the 338's with the high BC bullets are titties and beer!

Someday I'll build one. My brother uses the 338-378 Wby with the 300gr SMK, in the 32" bbl it's running 3000 fps with H870. Nice flat shooter with tons of downrange energy! It just don't slow down!