I was wondering how one would make brass for this round? I know its based on the '06 case and thats it. My wifes cousin has his dads gun now and we were wondering how to make ammo as his supply wont last forever. We cant just ask his dad as he passed away, that would have been too easy. All we know is he used 180gr bullets. If I can load some for him I will.

The Gibbs is a blown out 06 case with the shoulder moved forward. Since the shoulder is forward you can't simply fire factory 06. You will need to fireform the brass using a false shoulder or the bullet jammed into the lands to headspace. If you have the dies you are in good shape. If not I would suggest getting custom. Send in fired cases to Hornady or one of the other manufacturers. While there are 30 Gibbs on the market Rocky Gibbs didn't give out his info so there might be minor differences.

I prefer a false shoulder. Take some 06 brass run it over a 8mm or 338 expander then size to give you a shoulder that allows the case to chamber with a crush fit. Load medium heavy 06 load with a fast powder and fireform.

If you don't already have Gibbs dies the shoulder can be formed using 06 dies. Even with Gibbs dies you will still need to fireform. If you don't want to use a false shoulder then take a long bullet seat it out far enough to just allow chambering with the bullet jammed into the lands.

Midway and others sell 30 Gibbs brass made by Quality. But at $37/20 I don't need the right headstamp. Plus you would still need to check the brass against your chamber.


One last thought. If you see load data posted by Rocky Gibbs he normally measured his barrels from the front of the bullet. So you need to lower your expectations accordingly.

Back in 1978, the late Bob Hagel used my 30 Gibbs for his aritcle in Handloader Magazine.

After a lot of testing, we both agreed that it is nothing more than a "hot" 30-06, and no where near close to the 300 Magnum Rocky said it was.

I have lots of old papers I can fax to anyone interested.

Rick Jamison wrote an article comparing the 30-06, the 30-06 AI and the 30 Gibbs for Rifle Magazine. He put a pressure testing transducer on one barrel and tested it as a 30-06 with several different bullets. Then rechambered the barrel for the AI and tested that and finally rechambered it for the Gibbs and tested it. All the loads tested were held to factory 30-06 pressures. IIRC the AI averaged 66 FPS faster than the standard 30-06 and the Gibbs averaged 104 FPS faster than the standard 30-06.

The article would be a good source of pressure tested data for the Gibbs. I have it here somewhere and Rifle magazine probably has back issues.

I sure hate to almost agree with Jamison. I've burn a lot of powder and bullets over the last 27 years playing with my own version of a Gibbs. I used a 280 case shoulder forward at 40 deg vs 35. Best I could measure I gained about 1 net gr over the Gibbs line. (I had not heard of them when I started). Comparing std, AI and my case in the same barrel at the same pressure as my equipment measured it. I normally saw around 1% velocity for each 4% of capacity gain. The Gibbs with give you about 11% capacity so figure 2.75% or for the 06 around 80fps. I sure can't argue with 104 Jamison claimed.

Looking at Federals Ballistics and a 165 they show 2830 for the 06 and 3050 for the 300Wmag in 24" barrels. So add the 104 you are at 2934 for the Gibbs. Take 65FPS off the 300 Wmag to reduce pressure from 64,000 to 60,000 and you are at 2985. So the Gibbs is short the 300 by 51Fps. No animal would ever know the difference.

I try and load my case to around 63,000 so I have no expansion. I can just about match the factory magnums. The heavier the bullet the bigger the gap. Heavy bullets take up space and it hurts the smaller case more. In my 338 with a 24" and I can beat my 338Wmag maximum reload with a 22". In equal length barrels my magnum reloads always beat my wildcat but not by enough that it would matter.

The AIs and Gibbs are fun to play with. They can get real close to the magnums. They get there with less powder. But powder is cheap. I own more wildcats than factory. But when anyone asked me should they go std or AI, gibbs, Hawk, or Howell. I say stay Std. Unless you want to be different and play with one of the other cases. If you feel you really need the extra few fps the quickest way to get there is go Magnum.

In Woody's friends case it is his dads rifle. If it were mine I would load it, use it, treat it like a member of the family and each time I pulled the trigger I would say "thanks dad for the memory".

As for forming cases . . .

Coupla ways.

1. Start w/'06 brass. Run it over a .33 or .35 cal expander. Then run the brass thru the FL die (or you can use Hornady's "Universal" .30 cal neck sizer) to neck to brass back to .30 cal and put a shoulder to headspace on. You definately want a crush/tight fit for fireforming.

2. Start w/35 Whelen brass. No need to neck up. Same instruction as in #1 as far as going back down to .30 cal.

3. You can fireform many ways: (1) bulletless as outlined by Ken Howell or (2) with bullet.

Here's the bullet method. This pic show 35 whelen brass being used. The bullet is a 130 gr FP of some sort. Obviously, the fireforming loads on the left do not produce enuff pressure to do the job. The last one on the right is just about there. I like to lube of the neck/shoulder area. Usually take a second fireforming (near full house loads) to get nice crips angles in the brass.



I don't suscribe to the "jam-the-bullets-into-the-land" approach. Guess I read Ackley's book at any early age and most of what he said sunk in. This is not a acceptable way to maintain headspace while fireforming IMO. And definately don't count on the claw of a CRF to hold the case head against the bolt face.

I once tossed a 180 grainer at 3,050 fps over the Oehler 35. Primer fell right out of the pocket upon extraction! This was well over 64k PSI tho. I'm comfortable with 2,950 fps with the 180 grainer in a 25.5" tube.


<<MM>>

I have some rifles chambered in various Gibbs cartridges. The 30 was my first. I have fireformed more than 1000 cases for different guns, using different methods. For the 30 and over the cheapest way is to load some pistol powder and plug the case with a ball of tissue, point the muzzle in the air and bang. I've done this with mausers and enfields. Going from 30 to 35 sometimes the case mouth may not be true, however it has never been a problem for me. I also shot '06 ball ammo my dad had from the 50's as is and had good luck in 30 Gibbs. Formed with sharp shoulders nearly every time. My favorite load for the 30 is a 165 gr. bullet @ just over 3000 fps. A 300 weatherby it's not but close enuf. for us. Mark

quote:

also shot '06 ball ammo my dad had from the 50's as is and had good luck in 30 Gibbs. Formed with sharp shoulders nearly every time.

What did this headspace on? I've seen some rely on a mauser extractor to provide the headspace. Not something I would do.

I agree with you MM I have not used the bullet in the lands method in about 25 years. Using the COW pistol powder I usually have a shoulder with a little roundness but same capacity.

I use a 8mm expander,size neck with 30 to a crush fit, , max load of fast [4895] powder, seat a 150gr in the lands, and then shoot the gong for a while. A few cases split but most have sharp shoulders and last a while.

I would add, that all this working is "work hardening" the brass in the neck...

You should, unless you have an unlimited supply of brass, think if anneal. A dip in molten lead, pure lead, --hold the case by the rim with your fingers and you will quickly know when to pull the neck out of the lead and drop into a bucket of water-- works o.k. Or you can go with the propane powered systems to heat the neck to light pink in dim light and again, knock over into water... Probably douple your case life.

b). Mr. Ackley did not recommend the .30/'06 improved, his or anyone elses. Not enough gain.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS, luck.

I'm guessing the extractor was holding the case to the firing pin. Also the primers were prob.crimped in so that may be why they didn't 'back out'.
As to the annealling, we anneal most of the fireformed cases, from 240 Gibbs to the 416 Taylor. As said it appears to increase case life. Mark

I shoot a version called the 30MC. I use a 35 Whelan die to expand the neck, then I use a 308 Winchester die to size down again & get a crush fit. For better feel remove your firing pin when feeling for the crush fit.

Then I just shoot & hunt with the fireform loads. My fireform load is 1 grain below my full power loads. I get 3350 fps with the fireform & 3500 fps (28 inch barrel) with the full loads using speer 125gr TNT.

Pictures below of the cartridge & the rifle.

Regards,
JohnT

sorry I didn't get back to all your reply's sooner. thanks for all the info, it will help imensly in loading for this gun.

Does anybody here have a pic or can describe Rocky Gibbs stampings on rifles he rechambered. My wife bought me a 30 gibbs out of gunlist yrs ago from Florida and the fellow was a retiree who said he was from Viola Id. and Gibbs rechambered it for him. thanks Jim

That is the right loaction. I don't have a copy of his barrel. I do know that he didn't give out his dimensions. Others who chambered at that time. Measured his cases and went from there.