Used the biggest die in the set of Butch's dies. I measured it at .400 inches ID. It just crushed the brass. I did not anneal the case before trying. I suppose I can "anneal" in the flame of my gas stove. I just tried it on the crushed case. I held the head until it got too hot to keep in my fingers, then dropped it into a glass of water. Is that sufficient to anneal the neck?

I am thinking I need a die with a larger ID-- one that will get a bit over the shoulder and get started down before a crush can happen. I measure .522 inches at the bottom of the shoulder. Anybody have any idea what kind of steel these dies are made from and any heat-treating they have undergone? I am thinking I may need to have one or two made to get the necking started before the shoulder crushes...

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Originally posted by homebrewer:
Used the biggest die in the set of Butch's dies. I measured it at .400 inches ID. It just crushed the brass. I did not anneal the case before trying.

Of course! Annealing will just crush it easier. roger

I believe that I stated that the capacity of the dies were the body size of a 30-06 case. If you are playing with a larger diameter, you must have a larger die. The dies are heat treated. If you misunderstood or think I misled you, just send them back
Butch

Didn't mean to come accross as being snide. What end result are you trying to achieve?
The bushing approach is a good one. Just used it on making my 22 Rem. Jet Rimless and successfully fire formed them today. Without the Bushings it really would have been difficultroger

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You can neck a 458Lott down to 14 cal.

Neck diameter of a 458 is .481 inches. Largest die is .400 inches. How would one get a .481 neck into a .400 die? I've seen the picture of the .224 bullet in the Lott case. I know it can be done, so my little neckdown ought to be easy...

I'm going to keep them because there is no other way to do what I want to do. I wanted to know what kind of steel and any heat-treating because I am thinking I will have to have one or two bigger ones made to make the first reduction right at the shoulder. I know this will cost money and take time, but it's something I want to do. I am also thinking about having a die made that is twice the length of Butch's dies and has a long radius inside that will form the case for fireforming in one stroke. Don't know if that will work or not...

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Didn't mean to come accross as being snide. What end result are you trying to achieve?

I want to neck a 300RUM case down to the length of a 30-06 case with a neck .400 long on a 30-degree shoulder angle. This will allow me to use my long-action magnum rifle which is presently chambered for 300WSM. The WSMs don't feed from the magazine at all if more than one is loaded. They have to be loaded single-shot only. Even then, feeding is unreliable.

Some brass needs several steps to get the proper shape.I have seen some case forming sets that come with several dies to get the needed steps done.It isnt a one step process to neck down a 300 rum to 3006 length.Im not real familiar with the size of the 300 rum (case head diameter?) but maybe you would be money ahead to neck up a 7mm remington magnum case to 30 cal with the shoulder a crush fit ,and fire form the shoulder to fit your chamber.Even that would probably take more than one step.Sharp shoulders can be difficult to form in a die with out crushing the case.
I think,in a nutshell,your trying to do too much too fast.My dad used to make 244 ackley improved cases with a 45 degree shoulder from 30-06 cases when 6mm brass was scarce,or expensive.He crushed a lot of cases.It isnt real easy to shorten brass,and make the neck of the new case out of the shoulder or case body of the old case.He had to reform,shorten,anneal,reform,shorten,etc, in sequence to get where he wanted to be,and still had to fireform to get the sharp shoulder formed correctly.

What you're wanting to do won't work. Fireforming shapes the shoulder and shoulder angle. I have mentioned here before that if you wish to resize a larger case you can make 2 easy die inserts. This was brought to my attention by Roger. Buy both a 7/16th"[.4375] and a 1/2"[.500] drill bushing. Get them that are .625 in length and width. Put them in a collet in the lathe and cut or grind a 45deg. included angle in the mouth of the bushing. That is how I formed my 458 Lott shorter and to accept the 22 bullets. Do a search and you will find my post.
Butch

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Buy both a 7/16th"[.4375] and a 1/2"[.500] drill bushing.

This is what I wanted to know. Thanks.