The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Wildcats And Their Development 240 PageGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Anyone out here actually worked with a 240 page and or a 240 PSP? Thx Mark | ||
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Mark, Talk about a time warp, I haven't heard of the 240 Page Sooper Pooper since the 1960's. For the younger set, Warren Page, big time gun writer in the 50's and 60's, developed this cartridge. I'm supprised that no one responded, but then again the cartridge never did catch on to any great degree. The 6mm Remington and the 243 Winchester could be store bought and didn't require case forming. I do have a barrel in 240 PSP for a pre 64 Mdl 70, also have brass and probably have the dies somewhere. It's a shame I never did get around to putting it together. So little time, so many projects. | |||
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I tried to reply when Mark first posted, but couldn't for some reason. I picked up a very slick little pre-64 featherweight (59ish) that had a factory sightless barrel in 243. It had been re-chambered to 240 PSP sadly, but it shot very nice. I had an old Wildcat reloading manual by Lyman I think...it had the loads for the 240. Basically a medium improved 244/6mm Rem. Not as steep and sharp as the AI version, but a bit more capacity than the standard. Nice long neck. I finally sold to a guy in Alberta who really wanted it. I miss it as it was a very nice/unique gun. | |||
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 I may be having a brain fart but I seem to remember that Page's and Huntington's 6mm work predated the release of the .243 and .244. Maybe not the super pooper but perhaps the pooper.  The loading manual I remember was the Speer manual #3 Wildcats  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I got the loading data for the 240PSP and 243 Rockchucher in Speer Wildcat manual #4. The Rockchucher was faster 100/200fps. VFW | |||
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Speer Wildcat # 4! Thanks for the correction!  Funny how foggy the memory gets after 45 yrs. No problem the first 7 years.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Roger is correct. The 240 Page and the 243 Rockchucker preceeded the 243W and 244R by several years. There were also a couple of other wildcats that preceeded them but the Page and the Rockchucker were the best known. The 240 PSP is nothing but a 244 Improved with a different shoulder angle and slightly different body taper. You probably will not see any ballistic difference between them. You'll probably get a wider velocity spread between individual loads than you'll get between the two cartridges. Unless you have dies and a barrel for the PSP you're better off sticking with the 244 Ackley. Cheaper in the long run and more resale value. JMHO Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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The Speer wildcat manual #4 was published 1959 beside the two mention they also mention the 224 Improved by PO Ackley which had 30 degree shoulders. The 244 Improved and 243 Page Super Pooper used 244Rem cases. here is a quote for the article on the 243PSP, "Page worked out with Fred Huntington of RCBS a chamber reamer design which open out the 243 WCF chamber forward with a shoulder steepened to 28 degrees and a full length of 5/16 on the neck. Since for use in this chamber a longer case was needed, it was made by fire-forming 244 Remington brass so that the 240 PSP had, in effect a 243 WCF body taper. The 243 Rockchucher was made from 257 Roberts case. The 240 Page was the predecessor of the 243 WCF. Ordnance had a case of the T-65 type while Winchester at Page's suggestion followed his wildcat and became the 308. Later Win changed the design shoulder and neck length came out with the 243 WCF and you can see doing that so you couldn't chamber the case in a 308. What funny is they could of done the 243 before the 308. The 244 case goes back to 1955 same time as the 243 but they were worked on before they were released. VFW | |||
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Tom That Speer manual (and Cartridges Of The World)are both very confusing when it comes to describing the 240 PSP. They incorrectly imply that it was derived from the 243W when it was always based on the 244 Remington case. What they did was use the 243W body taper (.012" per inch) and applied it to the 244R case. This resulted in a shoulder diameter .002" less than the 243W. It's true that the 240 Page was made from experimental Frankford Arsenal brass around 1951 but it was not the predecessor of the 243 Winchester. In the early 1950s Winchester had contracts with Frankford Arsenal to produce experimental and prototype cartridges in calibers ranging from 18 to 30 and they envisioned the 243 Winchester exactly as it was later adopted, only they originally called it the 6mm Winchester. The 30 caliber version was introduced in 1952 and the 24 and 35 calibers in 1955. Page never had any input or involvement in the 308 Winchester. The case was designed by Frankford Arsenal in 1949 and it was delayed in being adopted as the US and NATO standard until 1954 mostly because of weapon development and opposition from other NATO countries. Winchester requested and was given approval to produce the cartridge commercially in 1952. Headspace on the 243W and 308W are the same. They use the same headspace gauge. The 243W can be chambered in a 308W rifle. The only change that was made in the 243 was to increase the case length by .030" in order to get a decent neck length. I have examples of the prototype 6mm Winchester cartridge as well as an earlier experimental made from Arsenal brass if anyone is interested in seeing photos. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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According to the article the orginal 240 Page was the predecessor of the 243,was made by necking down the experimantal Ordnance case of the T-65 type to use 6mm bullets 30degree shoulders and full 5/16neck While Winchester at Page's suggestion followed this wildcat with commercial form using what had come to be know as the 308. http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html VFW | |||
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Tom I'm not sure who you are quoting but it's incorrect. The 240 Page is as you described. Page took it to Winchester who were not interested because they were already developing their own 6mm cartridge. Page hisself says that he was turned down by Big W. Here are the 3 prototypes and the final 243W, all by Winchester. As you can see they resemble to 240 Page but are not the same thing. Second photo is a 240 Page and two other wildcats pre-243. Ray   Arizona Mountains | |||
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Nice thread.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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