I spoke with a couple of reamer manufacturers today and learned something new to me(even though they've been available for years). Due to the near identical outside neck dimensions of the 7.7x58mm Jap and .30 cal reamers, you can simply chamber a .30 cal barrel with a standard Jap floating pilot reamer(use a .30 pilot) and make a 7.62x58mm wildcat. Standard 7.7 Jap gauges and reloading dies will work. All you have to do is swap the .311 expander ball with a .308 ball. One maker told me they have supplied them for years to mainly shooters overseas. It is generally called the .30-7.7 Jap. The finish reamers can be purchased for around $138 or rented for $36. Brass can be easily made from 7.7 Jap, 8x57, and .30-06 length cases. 7.7 Jap reloading data is a good starting point as it is on the mild side anyway.

The 7.7 Jap case is virtually a 8x57 clone necked down. Same rim, shoulder and case head diameter with similar taper. It functions flawlessly through all Mauser models without mods. Not too long, not too short, and not too fat - just right. This would be an especially good choice for small rings and large ring intermediates. You can do the same thing with the 7.65x53mm Argentine too, but the 7.7 has more case capacity.

So if you've ever wondered about why there hasn't been a 57mm family .30 cal, it's been here all along! It provides a nice, mild caliber for the small ring actions and can be handloaded up to '.06 levels for the large rings. It also allows you to utilize the broad range of .30 cal bullets available and requires no action mods. Importantly, it doesn't require any more cash outlay than a standard chamber job.

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.../reamers/chamber.htm (ask for Dave)

http://www.reamerrentals.com/S...hResults.asp?Cat=388

That's fairly interesting.

I'm thinking that if the standard reamer is used, then the neck of fired cases will expand slightly more than desired, but probably still ok, just worked a little more in sizing.

I've thought about the .311 cartridges a bit. For example, I think the 7.62x54R and the 303 Brit would be great cartridges in an Encore. I don't want to critizise your idea, because it's interesting. However let me explain my thoughts without taking it as critizism.

First, I used to think I had to deal with .308 bullets or avoid the 30 cal altogether. .311 was not acceptable. But I changed my mind, and now if I could get a nice rifle that shot .311 or .312 bullets, so be it. I see no reason to wildcat, just to avoid .311 bullets.

Next, although the Jap cartridge has more capacity than the 7.65x53, the x53 has enough. I would rather be true to Mauser and chamber its barrel in an original Mauser cartridge. Brass and ammo for the x53 Belgian/Argentine cartridge is more readily available.

Bottom line for me is I think it would be neat to have a nice military '98 LR Mauser action converted into a sporter, and chambered in 7.65x53. That would just be dandy, and almost a sure thing as a good shooter, and factory ammo is reasily available. Think about resale too. The Jap 30 cal would be a hard sell as a finished rifle. The barrel might be worth something reamed out to 30-06, and the action - stock would be worth something. IMO, a finished Mauser rifle in an original mauser cartridge would be worth a lot more. Mauser / Jap = not a good combo, just doesn't seem right.

BTW, PacNor has the reamer for the 7.65x53 listed as standard chambering, and they make .311 barrels.

KB

Good luck with your 7.62 Bobster. It's still fairly interesting.

I've had a few wildcats, and have one shooter now, and another still in parts & ready for assembly. I already have a new reamer and new Redding dies for the 2nd one. But I really doubt that I'll ever do another wildcat.

The two wildcats, I have and having made, were in the works for a while, and the idea for them originated with my frustration in getting together rifles chambered in very similar (ballistically) factory cartridges. I thought up the 9.3x338 before Ruger announced their 375. My initial plan was to do a Mauser in 9.3x64, but had trouble getting brass, and the dies cost just as much as the wildcat, and I had trouble with finding an action that I could be assured would feed properly. The other one is a 323 Hollis, which is simply the 308 Norma necked up to 8mm, which started with the 8x68S, and similar story with brass, dies, and action. I made the committment (bought reamer & dies) to do the 323 Hollis before the introduction of the 325 Win short mag, but I still think the 323 H is a better cartridge. Both these wildcat cartridges feed and function in a Ruger receiver very well, and are ballistically the twin to the factory Euro cartridges. To me they are a practical way to get the performance with less problems encountered with the factory cartridges.

I generally like wildcats, and like the ideas for them. I keep the wildcat ideas narrowed down to basically two simple criteria. 1. it has to fill some niche, however small, even if significant only to me. and 2. it has to be a simple conversion from readily available brass.

Custom reamer and dies are too expensive to just mess around with a wildcat, unless of course I just want to, which was the case with my 9.3x338 and 323 Hollis.

Also for me a wildcat has to fit an action with little or no modifications to the action.

In the case of the 9.3x338, it turned out to be a good idea. It's a real good performer, and it fits a Ruger receiver with no mods to the action. It's also real easy to handload for, and has been a real surprise about that. I have been able to get great accuracy out of every bullet tested so far, including Nosler 250 gr BT and AB, Hornady 286gr, Lapua 286gr, and Barnes 250gr TSX. It's right at the top of my list of favorite rifles.

KB

It's probably been done, but you could neck the 7.65 down to .308 and call it a 7.62x53 or .308x53.

Kinda been there / done that. I had a barrel chambered for the 7.62x53R, for the Encore. It's the Finn version of the Russian 7.62x54R, only the Finns used .308 bulles rather than .311 bullets. Lapua makes factory ammo in 7.62x53R with .308 bullets - the 185gr Mega. It's a good shooter, but in a way I wish I had just gone with the .311 barrel, and cut a chamber for a standard 7.62x54 Rimmed Russian cartridge. With the .308 barrel, I have to use the Lapua ammo, or handload, which ain't much of a problem.

Better yet, I like the 8x57R. The 303 Brit ain't bad either, for a single shot.

Like I sorta said, I would go with a SAAMI or CIP cartridge any time before a wildcat, unless given a good reason. One good example is the Finn 9.3x53R, which is the 7.62x53R brass necked up. Of course the reamers and dies are available, if one really wants that cartridge. However, the 9.3x74R is readily available, which is a much better way to go.

The Finns, being innovative and resoursefull, also necked the same brass to 8mm, but of course the 8x57R is a better cartridge.

It is really - really rare to find a real need for a wildcat. There are so many worthy and near obsolete cartridges that should be shot, that wildcats are mostly superfluous.

The 7.65x53 (Belgian, or Argentine, or just Mauser) is perhaps the best example of a near obsolete cartridge that should be revived and shot. It's every bit as good as the 308 Winchester, and that's saying a lot. It's especially true since the 7.65x53 was an (THE) original Mauser cartridge, developed before the 30-30. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65x53mm_Argentine

Apparantly the 7.65x53mm Mauser was the second (military ??) smokless powder cartridge. The 8mm Lebel being the first, which is now truely obsolete. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What..._smokeless_cartridge

Like the 8mm Lebel, the 7.7mm Jap could fade into obscurity and no one - and I mean no one - would miss it. Almost like the 30-40 Krag, or the 8mm Siamese, it's historical, and best left there.

KB