I just bought a new Remmy 700 KS Mountain Rifle from their Custom Shop (well sort of a custom shop), in 35 Whelen. It shoots very accepable (about 1 1/4") with the one box of Federal Premimum 225 TBBC I shot through it just to test initial functioning.

I going to send it to somebody to install a 3 position safety (Gentry), and swap out the trigger for a Timney, so now is the time to consider reducing it's intrinsic value by 50%, by rechambering to either, 35 Whelen Improved or 358 Hawk (both based on 30-06 cases), before I spend money on regular 35 Whelen dies and brass.

I'm looking for around 2700 FPS with 250 grain bullets, and although either wildkitty will get me there, the 35 Improved requires fireforming, and the Hawk has formed brass available from Z-Hat. I'm not interested in re-barreling, re-boring or opening up the boltface for .532 class of cartridges, although Z-Hat is offering a 350 African Express, based on a 8x68S case, that is interesting as well.

Any one have any experience with any of those mentioned?

Thanks,

Bob

[ 08-28-2003, 00:26: Message edited by: Shadow ]

35 caliber on cats? aitn that overkill...

no, wait a a second, re-read...

AH>>>

Okay, IMHO, unless you are going to REALLY go large, there's no real improvement of the hawk over the 35 whelen AI, and limited brass at that.

If you want'ed it AI, then great, it's ai... if i remember, that's 50 to 100 FPS faster...

what's your target load?

If it was me, it would just stay a whelen... and get the cheap brass and dies.

jeffe

Bob
I have a 358 Hawk. You can easily reach 2700 with 250 gr bullets(from a 25" barrel.) Forming brass is easy if you decide you don't want to spend a bundle on their preformed brass. Only down side is the cost of the dies.

The way hawks get higher than expected velocity (in addition to about 10 percent case capacity gain) is to throat the chambers deep like classic Whetherby chambers. This helps hold down presure.

My pet load spits 225 gr nosler partitions out at about 2825fps into 3/4" 5 shot groups. At this velocity, extraction is smooth and cases have been reloaded eight times and counting.

If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with a 358 Norma mag. due to cheap brass and dies.

Shadow,

You may want to invest in some reloading dies and find out what your Whelen will do?

I have a Remington 700 Classic, the rifle has a 22" barrel and because Remington uses a long action, generous throat you might be able to seat the bullets longer than 3.34.

I have had success using Winchester 30-06 brass, Winchester WLR primers with and overall length of 3.50. I get 3-5 grains more capacity from the Winchester brass. The net effect I get improved performance without forming brass and special dies. The rifle likes max loads with RL 15 and Hornady, Speer, Nosler 250 gr spitzer type bullets. I have chron'd the loads at 2620 fps from a 22" barrel. By the way my rifle groups best with the max loads less tha 1.5", soon as I back off the groups start opening up.

Your custom KS should get close to 2700 from the 24" barrel.

Good day

BD

I would offer to sell you a spare set of 35 whelen dies, but they are all of 25 bucks from midway.

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/797871

btw, i got some lyman 416 rigby dies from them... rougher than a biker at 3 am...

jeffe

Thanks all for your replies.

I had not realized that the Hawk where free-bored alla Weatherby. The 35 AI is sounding better.

Bwana-be,

It not the money I'm trying to save by not opening up the bolt face. If I wanted a magnum, I would have started with donor with the correct bolt face. But I really wanted to stick with a 06 based case.

That said, the .512 8x68 bolt face does require that you start with 06 bolt face.

Hmmmm, more research needs to be done on the 350 African Express (that is a catchey name).

In the end, for now, I might just take Jeffe's and Bigdog's advise, and buy some 35 Whelen dies, and see what I can get out of her.

I really like Redding Deluxe 3 die sets. Hay, anyone want to swap or sell a Redding 3 die set in 35 Whelen? I have the following new for sale or swap:

Series B Redding Deluxe three die set in 284 Win

or Series D Redding Two Die set in 9.3x74R?

Thanks,

Bob

[ 08-28-2003, 17:12: Message edited by: Shadow ]

I have a .35 whelen AI on a 1917. It was a gift and the load that was worked up for it by my stepfather (who gave it to me) pushes a 225 grain at 2800+ with I think IMR 4350. But I have a 26" barrel. It is a great cartridge, maximizes performance out of the 06 case, and cheap to load for. Fireforming isn't really a hassle, I use all my fireform loads to practice shooting the rifle.

What length is your barrel?

Red

Red,

24"

Bob

Well that's a good length, some were cut to 22" which is too short for the whelen in my opinion. With 24" you should be able to workout some great loads. I say go for an easy change if you want a bit better performance. I think last time I had a rifle taken out to AI it cost me about 50 bucks, it was on a springfield 03a3. You can always do something else with it later if it doesn't work out for you.

Red

Check out the 350 Howell. An extended 06 case, roughly 10% more case capacity then the 06, which should give you the speeds you want. - Dan

It sounds like the 350 howell and the hawk are a lot alike. Does anyone know the diffrence?

Pretty sure the Hawk is a blown out '06 case with the shoulder moved forward, and the Howell is based on a lengthened '06 case.

The 35 Whelen is an easy choice. Just shoot a box of factory loads and neck size (Hornady 35 cal neck sizer) the improved brass and your in the game.

The 358 Hawk takes more work to make brass and you can't shoot factory 35 Whelen loads through the gun when you forget your ammo at home.

The 358 HAWK is an impressive looking cartridge!

Your choice.

Snapper

Shadow, I feel that the 35 Whelen is fine just as it is. I've found that I can get 2650 f.p.s. from a max load of reloader 15 and Hornady 250gr RN. You won't find these loads in the new manuals though. I got the load data from Handloader magazine. I'm using 58.5gr in mine. You should start lower and work up. These loads give me 3/4" groups all day long. The gain by going to an Ackley propably wouldn't be worth the extra money for the chamber job or dies. Just my 2cents. Good luck however you decide.

I know many folks up here that use the std 35 whelen, and get 2550-2600 fps w/ 250 gr using 58 to 58.5 gr RL 15. When I had my 35 whelen AI, I was getting 2700 fps, but pressures were too high. I do not think the improved cartridges are worth the expense and effort for an extra 50 fps. Anything more then a 50 fps gain comes from higher pressures, not some magic improved efficiency. Also, anything you'll hunt will be effectively taken with 250 gr @ 2600 fps, the extra 100 fps doesn't appreciably flatten the trajectory, or increase terminal performance. The whelen is fine the way it is, I only wished I'd gone with the std chamber when I'd built mine.

shadow I also have a 358hawk and like it a lot.I went to this chamber because a 35w loaded hot gets stickey in our hot summers in texas[and I dont very much like getting stomped by ferrel cattle!!]I dont have a chrono yet so am useing primers as pressure indicator my load 62.5gr varget with 250Hornady RN really slaps them down hard and extraction is very easy

[ 09-01-2003, 21:48: Message edited by: 1cav sgt ret ]

Fred Zeglin has the reamer for the 350 African Express. I have the distinction, good or bad, of designing that cartridge.

Perfromance wise, it is much more like a 358 Norma Mag Very Improved without the belt. It looks just like a 416 Rigby, but shorter -- 35 Whelen length. If you put one next to the Rigby, you will see the 350 is almost a twin, but shorter and, of course, smaller diameter.

I can get 2800 fps from 280 grain bullets at reasonable pressures. That is, no signs of pressure and easy extraction. IMR4350 powder and similar burn rates are about right for the heavy bullets.

Start with 358 Norma Data and work up. It is pretty easy to load for it.

I also have a 26 inch barrel on mine. I do like the results of this endeavor. I am thinking of doing another rifle with a 24 inch barrel.

RobertD

I have a 35 Whelen improved built on a VZ24 action and 24 inch barrel. I get an average of 2830fos with the nosler 225. The z-hat and other sholder moved forward cases would be simular to the brown-whelen and mite give you 50fps more than the improved. Dies form reddington are about $50 or so bucks. The improved chamber seems to extend the brass life a bit, and to me just looks cool.

With my Pac-nor tubed .35 Whelen Im getting 2600fps with a 250gr Hornady and groups small enough I will not dare say what they are (ok you twisted my arm, last group was .29" at 100 yards). I was looking at the AI but when I started plugging numbers into the ballistic tables an extra 100 fps was not really going to do much as far as field performance is concerned. IMHO you would need to jump to a .358STA before you will see a difference in the field.

Why not rechamber it to .358 Norma Magnum?
You do need to take up the bolt face to take the mag-case head, and maybe have some issues with the feeding from the mag?
But you will have a great cartridge with the same OAL as the Whelen.

You might consider the 35 Gibbs. Its like a 9.3X62 necked down to 358.

And if you want I have a Gibbs barrel for sale, from a post 64 Model 70. I too have a whelan and have killed several bear with it. That and the 250 Partition are all the power needed. I did build a 358 STA but that is for reaching further when necessary.
Frank