A search shows a reference to the existence of a wildcat .22 on a 357 mag case, but no further info or data. It would seem to be a natural for the Martini Cadet action. Anybody know anything about this round?

If my memory hasn't failed me it's more commonly know as the .22 Remington Jet.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Marlin:
If my memory hasn't failed me it's more commonly know as the .22 Remington Jet.

It is and Jim Kobe put one together for me on a Ruger #1. It has given me a lot of pleasure. Since is this is the wildcat forum It should be said that there is a lot of room for an IMPROVED 22 Jet.
The Kobe barreled rifle also gave rise to the 22 Jet rimless used in the same rifle. The cartridges were made from .223 military cases.
My data is available if wanted. No Charge. roger

Thanks for the information. I vaguely remember this as a pistol round in a Smith and Wesson from quite a few years ago. That 6 degree shoulder would seem a bit out of place on a rifle round, but it is a starting point anyway.

The S-W M-53 22 Center Fire Magnum (Jet) revolver was made from 1961-74. The ammo was sold by Remington until about 1990. Remington still makes an occasional run of brass. It would get a honest 1700 fps with a 40 gr. bullet out of a 6" barrel.

It came with cylinder inserts so 22 rimfire cartridges could be fired in the gun. To accommodate both a rimfire and centerfire cartridge, the gun had two frame monunted firing pins and a selectable hammer. The barrel was .222" and centerfire ammo must use .222"-.223" bullets.

The cartridge was designed with a slow 6 degree shoulder and had a reputation for sticking cases or cases backing out of the chamber and jamming the gun.

There was a contemporary cartridge, the 256 Winchester (Ruger made a single shot pistol and Marlin made a rifle) that had a more familiar shoulder. It might be a better starting point for a wildcat for a rifle.

Armadillo, the .256 Win necked to .22 might be just the ticket. A search under .22-256 came up empty, wonder if it's been tried before. I looked up the .22 Rem Jet in Ken Howell's book and got to browsing around. Looks like a .357 Rem Maximum case could be sized in a .221 Fireball die and trimmed to a .221 Rimmed Fireball. I wonder if that has been tried either. I don't know if that case would be too long to make the turn into a Cadet breech though. I'd hate to find out the hard way it was too long. More homework to do before ordering a barrel.

FYI!!!! The 218 Bee has the same case volume as the 22 Jet. roger

Go here and scroll down to .224 diameter wildcats and you will see all kinds of previous cartridges (and data) built on .357 Magnum cases necked to .224", including ones with 20 degree, 23 degree, 30 degree, and 40 degree shoulders. It was a fairly popular thing in the 1960s and even before.

Ditto the .357 Maximum case, beginning in the 1980s.

www.qual-cart.com/exotic.htm

N.B: If you google .224/.357 wildcats, you'll find even more of them.

Larry,
Pay attention to the base diameter of the .357 case. The prints I've found show the base diameter of the .357 as ~.003" larger than that on the .223 case that the Fireball is based from. Measuring, I get .002" bigger for the .357. So the question is, will the fireball (or other .223 based round) die size the solid web portion of the case enough to reduce it that last couple of thousandths to chamber. You could end up having to turn the solid head portion of the case down or maybe make a special small base die.

I just took a .38 special (.377 measured solid web diameter, my .223 cases measure .375) and ran it into my .223 die. It did not size the last 1/16th inch in front of the rim. When I put it into a .223 chamber on a Cooper barrel I have sitting around, it was a light press fit the last 1/16th" to go into the rim touching the barrel. I put the case in the lathe and took .001" off the solid web diameter with a jewelers file in about ten seconds and it dropped right in. The .223 reamer print I have shows .375 at the solid web and that jives with the amount of play a sized .223 case has in this chamber, so that might work. It would be nice if you could just run a .223 in short and shorten the dies, but I "think" you are going to be .005-.008" too big at the base of a .357 case to go into that chamber, which would require turning down the solid head a bit. You might get away holding the Fireball reamer .1" short, but it may be tight at the base. The Fireball is 1.4" long and the .357 mag is 1.3ish so you might not have to hold it too short because the case should grow some when it is necked down. It would be nice to just shorten cheaply available dies.

Or, just make up your own reamer and dies optimized to the case you like.

btw...check your email.

Edit...Corrected case measurements. Caliper was not properly zeroed.

Alberta C, Your advice to Google .224-357 was very fruitful, looks like there are dies and reamers to be had. Thanks. gzig5, I may try to find a Fireball resize die in reno this weekend and bum a couple of .357 Max cases off Clausen. I had him measure some of his brass and at least some new brass is small enough Dia. it should work. If the rimmed Fireball idea will work it would be lots cheaper than all custom.

My grandpa built one on a Marlin lever gun. It loves lead bullets and destroys the racoons. I know it's a bit graphic, but tagging a couple of big racoons makes everything better.

Now that has me really thinking, I like the Jet pistols but they are about the loudest things going. A Lever action rebarreled to 22 Jet could be really gun.

SSR

The .22 Cotterman Jet was a popular choice, for a while, and made a pretty good carbine for a while.
I got hold of a Rossi .357 a while back, and a 22" .25 caliber barrel seemed to fall on. A .256 Mag reamer appeared in my tool box, and before long, I was using that little carbine wherever I went.
Coyotes to 150+ yards, and squirrels to 100 were in the "danger zone."
With either a Williams or Redfield peep sight, or the Lyman tang-sight I use, make it a great little walkin' rifle.
Have fun,
Gene

I have one of these Cadet actions chambered for a 22/357 Max that has been a lot of fun. 40 gr VMax over 21½ gr of 4198 gives me an honest 3600 fps and will group under 5/8" all day. Kind of a long story of my development but will post more info if anyone is interested.

Lay it on us dwinter. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to hear your story.

Roger

OK I bought one of those Martini Cadet at a pawn shop in Dayton Ohio in the early 60's for $14. Had to borrow $2 from my wife. The inspiration were articles by Dan Cotterman that some else has mentioned here. The action laid on the shelf for 30 some years. After my last career change and an opportunity to build my dream workshop, I dusted the thing of and took it to a local gunsmith to be barreled to 218 Bee. Stocked it myself and bushed the firing pin. A couple of years of frustation trying to get modest velocities and easy extraction, saw a posting on another forum titled "Poor man's wildcat" This the 357 Max case necked to 222 Rem dimensions with a shortened neck. The post was from a guy who posts here under the name "J.D.Steele" (Thanks Joe). With a great deal of advice and help from him I had a drawing made using the 357 Max case and the shoulder from the 223 Ackley. I'll post separatly on my experiences with case forming, but I knew I was on the right track when my first 10 fireforming loads went into ¾" at 100. I told you this was kinda long so I'll fiil in other stuff later.

I remember a Outdoor life aticle from the 60s a couple of guys in WA state was using them for spring blackbear hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by touchdown88:
My grandpa built one on a Marlin lever gun. It loves lead bullets and destroys the racoons. I know it's a bit graphic, but tagging a couple of big racoons makes everything better.

When I frist read the post I thought cool marlin lever and there you are.

Martini does not have a strong extractor. That's what started me looking for slightly more case capacity. My previous experience with a 222 Rem gave me a pretty good objective. Oh why did I sell that Sako ?

When I had the chamber cut, I also had the 'smith shorten a set of 223 ackley dies to the same length as the chamber.

I sent a couple cases to Lee and they made a set of collet dies. These have done a super job.

About the gun; the action is a Greener, barrel is 22", .750 at the muzzle. Stock is pretty Plain Jane PG but with a Rosewood tip.

Firing pin diameter and protrusion in the Martini are critical. After some experimenting, I ended up with .050" dia and .050" protrusion. Have not had any problems with ignition.

Case forming for the 22/357:
1. Anneal necks
2. Neck down with 30 Luger (7.62 Tokarov will also work)
3. Neck with 256 Win
4. Neck with 222 Rem (the sharp transition at the neck in the 223 Ackley crumpled too many cases)
5. trim and turn necks (just to clean up)
6. Fireform

This was my first experience in case forming and the learning curve was pretty steep. I think I ended up with 40 good cases out of 100 on my first pass; But only lost 2 cases in the last 100 that I made.

Will try to post some picture if I can find the files and can figure out how to post here.

Dwinter, thanks for the very useful info. Who made the reamer for you, and who was your gunsmith?

The reamer was a standard 223 Ackley Improved, but just run in short. The gunsmith was Laux Gun Service in Newport OH. He also did the blueing and scope mounting.

I would love to have a 6 shot 256 Win Mag to match my Contender barrel.
Reeder has been doing the 256 GNR and the 224 GNR for awhile.
Both of these are off the 357 Maximum case.