Going over my records and handloads today, came across some pics and data on my old 375 and 416 Chatfield Taylor..What a great caliber, duplicated the 375 Holland, and the 416 Rem in a light rifle, recoil was modest by comparison. I really liked those calibers and they worked as well on DG and anything else I used, a reminder in the real world the bottom line is bullet placement and bullet construction, not raw power, massive recoil, and caliber..I suppose the Ruger 375 and 416 have dealt the death blow to these two caliber and probably rightly so, but never the less they were the best in there day, and deserve to stick around for another decade or two at least..A pair of those would still be African perfect today..

Biebs for your information Ross Sefried carried a Blaser 416 Taylor as his backup rifle during his 11 or so years as a PH in Africa, if my memory serve me right...and that's the best recommendation one could ask for..

Ray, I was at Seyfried's old ranch in Colorado many times. I cannot ever remember his mentioning carrying a Blaser to Africa. Not saying he did or did not, but it would make perfect sense, because he was extremely concerned about the possibility of loosing or damaging a "good" gun either in shipping or to some good ole boy. I do not think he ever took his Rigby .577 to Africa as a PH and his .416 Rigby only made a trip or two. IIRC he once had a .470 confiscated by Customs in NYC, it was apparently stolen at some time prior to his purchasing it from Thad Scott. Created a bit of a problem since he was headed for Africa and every PH needs a stopper rifle, right?

Liking Ruger rifles, I always thought a 416 Taylor would be nice in a Ruger action. Never had one made, but when Ruger introduced the 416 Ruger to fit their regular actions (not the RSM), I was sold and excited. Bought a Ruger Alaskan which would not feed. After sending it in to Ruger, and having them replace it three times, all of which did not feed either, I gave up. Then some years later, I tried one more time, and it too would not feed.

I just bought another one (I am a slow learner or an eternal optimist. I prefer to think of myself as the latter!). This one is a gray laminate, African. I had the seller show me the extraction with full mag, one in the chamber, and repeat with two in the mag and finally one in the mag. All successful, so it's mine now and should arrive in today's mail.

The Ruger cart is obviously an improvement (no belt, more powder, more velocity) over the Taylor round, so I am excited to see/use this rifle. As I don't reload, and factory ammo is available, this round works for me vs. the Taylor. In the last two months, I have found and purchased an identical rifle gray lam./African in 375 Ruger and a gray/lam. 338WM. This will be my Alaskan battery to choose from when I finally get to hunt that state. Thank you Ruger, for both the rifles and the new cartridges!

In the later years of Craig Boddington’s tenure as host of Tracks Across Africa he uses a Ruger MKII rebarrled to 416 Taylor.

You can see the rifle on Safari Rifles II DVD and Buffalo II DVD. It has a blues action with stainless steel barrel.

I had one built on a Czech VZ-24 Mauser action by Val Albert of Medford, Oregon. He fitted a Pac-Nor barrel and three-position wing safety, and bedded it in a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock.
This was to be a working rifle and it handled the Taylor's recoil very nicely. I sold it to a member here from Texas before I really put it to any use beyond the shooting range.
Always wished I had spent more time with it.

Squezenhope,
Ross did use a 416 Taylor, Blaser in AFrica, and he even wrote about it..He used light for caliber bullets in it, 300 or 350s? in the article..Ive known Ross over the years and I don't recall him talking about it, I mean who in the world would admit using a Blaser in front of Jack Belk, Phil Shoemaker, and such royality!

I have a 375 Ruger 77RS, wood and blue, that feeds the 375 Ruger round slicker n snot with everything Ive put through it..Ive never had a feed problem, not one and Ive owned a number of Rugers..It weighs 7.5 Lbs and only made in 2008 on special run...

Surefire I think your snake bit my friend !!

You're right Ray. I WAS snakebit on the 416 Ruger. Never had so much trouble in my life on one rifle model.

Glad to report it's over now. The gray laminate 416 I just bought is actually what I've wanted all along, but could only find the Alaskan. Thankfully, this rifle feeds effortlessly. Saga over...

With all the ill conceived "new" factory cartridges, this one that should have happened, but didn't.

My 416 Taylor is on slick feeding Mauser action with a M70 style safety. I can get a 400 grain bullet moving out at 2300 and change and using RL-17 I get the Speer 350 ripping along at nearly 2600.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
You're right Ray. I WAS snakebit on the 416 Ruger. Never had so much trouble in my life on one rifle model.

Glad to report it's over now. The gray laminate 416 I just bought is actually what I've wanted all along, but could only find the Alaskan. Thankfully, this rifle feeds effortlessly. Saga over...

This is probably a dumb question, since Ruger replaced the rifle multiple times and never evidently figured out the problem. But, were you able to discern anything about the design of the gun or its functioning and caused this issue?

quote:

Originally posted by JeffreyPhD:

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
You're right Ray. I WAS snakebit on the 416 Ruger. Never had so much trouble in my life on one rifle model.

Glad to report it's over now. The gray laminate 416 I just bought is actually what I've wanted all along, but could only find the Alaskan. Thankfully, this rifle feeds effortlessly. Saga over...

This is probably a dumb question, since Ruger replaced the rifle multiple times and never evidently figured out the problem. But, were you able to discern anything about the design of the gun or its functioning and caused this issue?

I am not a gunsmith, so my response to your question has little value. I suppose there may be many reasons for the poor feeding: feed rails, magazine spring, feed ramp, etc. My non-professional feeling is that it was the feed rails.

quote:

Liking Ruger rifles, I always thought a 416 Taylor would be nice in a Ruger action. Never had one made, but when Ruger introduced the 416 Ruger to fit their regular actions (not the RSM)

I had a pair built both MKII stainless.

Before there was a 416 Ruger if doing over I would buy a MKII in 416.

If didn't have all the 416T stuff for reloading in would have them rechambered to the Ruger.

Hi Ray,
I have an old 375/358 Norma, the equivalent and almost identical to the 375 Taylor. It's built on a pre 64 Mod. 70. The original owner reformed 338 Win. and 300 Win. mag. brass. The original stock was retained as it has unusually nice wood grain. The chrono data shows that it exceeds 375 H&H performance by a bit. The reformed cases are a hair short but throat erosion is not a concern as it is certainly not a daily shooter. I also have proper 358 Norma cases that have been necked up. The barrel is 25".

Geoff

Have any of you guys that own 416 Taylors ever tried CFE 223 with 400 grain bullets. I had someone run the numbers in quick load, and the results were very, very, impressive. I’m wondering what real world performance looks like. Thanks

When I was shooting the Taylors, there was no CFE223, but its been a good powder for a number of calibers Iv used it with....In my days of the Taylors I found IMR-4320 the ideal powder and I doubt that anything could improve it much as far as velocity is concerned.

I supppose the the 416 Ruger will be the death knell for the taylors, but maybe not?? who knows.
As much as Ive liked my 375 H&H over the years I hate to admit it but I like my 375 Ruger better in every respect so far..I suspect the same would apply for a 416, ?????

Loved mine , was built on a '98 in the early 1980's

I remember Ross writing about his personal African backup rife, which was a 416 Remington on a Rem 700 ! Not a choice normally chosen

And the early 416 Ruger & the 375 Ruger had a few issues. Partially due to all the edges of the chamber and feed rails being super sharp.
The new rifles seem to have fixed that.
But the real issue were the Hornady steel jacked "soft" bullets with the wide meplat.
When the steel jacket caught the sharp edge of the chamber it caused a hell of a jam !

I remember telling Steve Hornady at either SCI or SHOT , that his DG ammo made hunting even more dangerous.

But both the Hornady issue and the Ruger issues have been cleared up. My 416 & 375 Rugers now feed wonderfully, even with the new Alaskan Arms extended magazine box that allows an addition round to be carried in the magazine. On my MkII that Bill Atkinson converted to 375 H&H the new magazine allows two addition rounds to be carried !

George Hoffman did it years ago with the 416 Hoffman cartridge, which Remington came close to copying with their version.
I have had those versions in a pre-64 Model 70, along with an original early Model 70 in 375 H&H-
Have not found better rifles or calibers;they work,up or down in snow or mud.

Dont get me on a rant about how my friend George Hoffman, got screwed by Remington on the 416, but thats of no importance today I suppose..It is what it is or rather was what it was..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Dont get me on a rant about how my friend George Hoffman, got screwed by Remington on the 416, but thats of no importance today I suppose..It is what it is or rather was what it was..

I hear you Ray. Remington really shafted poor George Hoffman on that deal. Basically stole his idea and gave him nothing. Considering Remington’s situation today, perhaps it’s karma.

Too top it off, Mrs Hoffman received georges last custom rifle, by Sterling Davenport and she put it in the Dallas Safari show to be autioned off on SAt and SUN best I recall his gun was to be auctioned on sun and a bunch of us were standing in line to see that Mary got a good price I was willing to spend a bundle...SCI DAllas sold the gun on sat, contrary to the schdule and some guy bought it for $800...and refused to resell it on Sun or too several of the buyers..just a damn mess and a crushing blow to a fine lady. He was a dear friend schedduled for a free hunt with Saeed, Pierre and myself, he spent his last year planning that SAfari but didn't make it, Mary said he was excited and planed daily for the hunt it filled his last year with all of us..RIP my friend.

Ray, that just makes me sick to hear that story. There are some real, certified SOBs running around the planet.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Too top it off, Mrs Hoffman received georges last custom rifle, by Sterling Davenport and she put it in the Dallas Safari show to be autioned off on SAt and SUN best I recall his gun was to be auctioned on sun and a bunch of us were standing in line to see that Mary got a good price I was willing to spend a bundle...SCI DAllas sold the gun on sat, contrary to the schdule and some guy bought it for $800...and refused to resell it on Sun or too several of the buyers..just a damn mess and a crushing blow to a fine lady. He was a dear friend schedduled for a free hunt with Saeed, Pierre and myself, he spent his last year planning that SAfari but didn't make it, Mary said he was excited and planed daily for the hunt it filled his last year with all of us..RIP my friend.

Geez, talk about salt in the wound! Thanks for sharing that last bit of info Ray. It’s amazing the thoughtlessness or heartlessness of some persons.

That sounds like Hemingways Beretta S3 he shot at pigeons for many years. After his death it was sold by his wife to "a large dealer" for a few hundred dollars. Later Beretta bought it at auction for a 6 figure amount.

This is something we should all consider. Even for just regular gun and all out reloading, optics and stuff.

A number of my friends have a sealed envelope marked “to be opened on the event of my death” they their wives know about.

Every one of them designated a specific person who is to be consulted regarding all their sporting items.

Mostly it says to contact me.


I also have these instructions left with friends.

I've built both 375 and 416 Taylor. I like em. My son killed a buffalo bull and cow with the 416, they died well. I,haven't killed anything with the 385 yet, bit I'm gonna!

I've always wondered why there was that big gap between the 338 WM and the 458 WM.

Winchester's magnum rifle rounds were developed in:

458 - 1956
338 - 1958
264 - 1959
300 - 1963

It's 0.04" between the 264 and the 300 and 0.04" to the 338. The next logical steps are .375 and .416

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I remember Ross writing about his personal African backup rife, which was a 416 Remington on a Rem 700 ! Not a choice normally chosen

And the early 416 Ruger & the 375 Ruger had a few issues. Partially due to all the edges of the chamber and feed rails being super sharp.
The new rifles seem to have fixed that.
But the real issue were the Hornady steel jacked "soft" bullets with the wide meplat.
When the steel jacket caught the sharp edge of the chamber it caused a hell of a jam !

I remember telling Steve Hornady at either SCI or SHOT , that his DG ammo made hunting even more dangerous.

But both the Hornady issue and the Ruger issues have been cleared up. My 416 & 375 Rugers now feed wonderfully, even with the new Alaskan Arms extended magazine box that allows an addition round to be carried in the magazine. On my MkII that Bill Atkinson converted to 375 H&H the new magazine allows two addition rounds to be carried !

I had one of the early 375 Rugers come into the shop, when the cartridge was first introduced. I was surprised that it had made it out of the plant. They had some real quality control issues about then.
I suppose I have barreled a dozen or so 375 C-T and nearly the same in 416 Taylor. I really like both cartridges and often wonder why Winchester did not bring them out. Bill.