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416 cat idea
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So, the 416 Taylor fits in a standard action (think milsurp Mauser, mmm) but only pushes 2350 fps max with a 400 gr pill.
Why doesn't someone (please!) make a 2.5" 416 off of the 404J case?
A 416 Dakota Short, if you will.
I'll just bet it would make up that extra 50 fps everyone craves, and we could all have a buff gun for $200!!!
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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You can with the 416 Taylor. This going on and on about the 2350 vs 2400 concerning the Taylor vs the Rigby is ridiculous. It comes up every time these two cartridges are mentioned. There is really no difference between them except the operating pressure. Some people with Rigby's load them to higher pressure and get more performance. They are also loading above the SAAMI spec for the round and, more importantly, exceeding the design parameters for the case itself. This case is inherently a lower pressure design. Case volumn isn't everything.

The difference between 2350 and 2400 is simply not significant. Many loads vary more than this from round to round. I have heard people make statements that if you didn't get a 400 gr bullet at 2400 or didn't have 5000 ft-lbs, you didn't have a dangerous game rifle. Who says? I believe the answer is John Taylor, and while I love his writing and respect his opinion, it is based on experiences and bullet designs from fifty years ago. This magic limit is no more or less meaningful than his Taylor KO value. Every gun writer who ever put pen to paper about big bores has developed his own index. Even Saeed has one posted. In light of this, I am amazed that some arbitrary definition is lent so much importance. It is really handy that it exactly matches the Rigby performance. (It should, since Taylor set it because he thought the Rigby was the minimum acceptable round at the time.) I don't doubt that the Rigby is better than the Taylor. But it is better by so little that it really doesn't matter. If you think you are that close to a problem, then you need to start doubting the effectiveness of the Rigby. Common wisdom would seem to say that the Rigby kills like a bolt of lighting, but the .416 Taylor or .400 simply bounce off while making blisters on the skin.
 
Posts: 1238 | Location: Lexington, Kentucky, USA | Registered: 04 February 2003Reply With Quote
<JBelk>
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Bwana-b----

I have a 416 Rigby x 2.5 and a .338 and a 7mm on the same case. They fit in a standard magazine and the reamers and HS guage could be bought very reasonably.... Let me know.
 
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It's been around for ~25 years, it is called the 416 Howell, 404 with the sholder set back, necked down to 416 and trimmed to 2.5". Case capacity is for all intents and purposes identicle to the 416 rem mag. I bought Ken Howells original chamber reamer, then traded it to John Ricks who has subsequently built a few.

The downside is RCBS extortion for a set of dies, over $200. I believe CH4D will make a set for ~$150.

Do a search for 416 Howell on the big bore forum, it has been discussed a few times in the past.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JBelk:
I have a 416 Rigby x 2.5 and a .338 and a 7mm on the same case. They fit in a standard magazine and the reamers and HS guage could be bought very reasonably.... Let me know.

JBelk,
Do you have a copy of the engineering drawing for your .416 X 2.5"? If you do what would it take to get a copy? It looks like it might be what I am looking for necked up to .458. If I had a copy of the drawing I could send it to Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and have him make me the reamer. If you dont have a copy of the drawing would you like to sell one of the cases? Dave could do it form that.

quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
The downside is RCBS extortion for a set of dies, over $200. I believe CH4D will make a set for ~$150.

Paul H,
According to Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool if you send Hornady a copy of the engineering drawing they can make a set of dies for about $80. It's worth a try to check it out.

[ 03-26-2003, 01:27: Message edited by: WyoJoe ]
 
Posts: 1172 | Location: Cheyenne, WY | Registered: 15 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by WyoJoe:
quote:
Originally posted by JBelk:
I have a 416 Rigby x 2.5 and a .338 and a 7mm on the same case. They fit in a standard magazine and the reamers and HS guage could be bought very reasonably.... Let me know.

JBelk,
Do you have a copy of the engineering drawing for your .416 X 2.5"? If you do what would it take to get a copy? It looks like it might be what I am looking for necked up to .458. If I had a copy of the drawing I could send it to Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and have him make me the reamer. If you dont have a copy of the drawing would you like to sell one of the cases? Dave could do it form that.

quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
The downside is RCBS extortion for a set of dies, over $200. I believe CH4D will make a set for ~$150.

Paul H,
According to Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool if you send Hornady a copy of the engineering drawing they can make a set of dies for about $80. It's worth a try to check it out.

I have sent Hornady two drawings for two different wildcat cartridges about 8 months ago and have heard nothing from them as of today. If you want a set of custom dies, send the drawing to Ch4D or have your gunsmith make you a set. Good luck.
 
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001Reply With Quote
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