Well here is my first attempt at a wildcat cartridge! Well almost I do have a 8mm-06. This one is based off the .405 Win cartridge, necked down to 7mm. Supposed to give me .280 AI performance out of a 17" Garry Reeder Encore Pistol barrel.

I necked the brass down in a three step process running it through some 06 based cartridge dies (35 Whelen, 8mm, .280) without the decapping rods and expander balls. I used the .280 rem die instead of my GNR die for the final size because my frame would lock up easier. Once fire formed the frame locks up easy as well. I'm using a bulk 140 grain bullets seated to the cannelure to fire form with 49.5 grains of H4350 for the charge.

The other two cartridges are what it will look like when I'm done fire forming the rest of the cases. I loaded the Ballistic tip to where the boat tail was just below the base of the neck. Looked a little long but chambers without hitting the lands. The other is the same bulk bullet loaded to the cannelure I used for the fire form loads.

According to the data I have 56 grains of H4350 and LR Magnum primer will push the NBT at 2900+ fps out of my barrel. I didn't have any Mag primers so I worked loads from 54-57 grains of H4350 with CCI 200 primers. We will see how good I'm able to shoot this pistol hopefully this weekend if weather cooperates!

Might have to try it on an elk or deer this fall! That is if I can get my shooting up to par with a Encore pistol. Here is some pictures of my Encore pistol that I'll be shooting this cartridge from.

Taylor

The 405W necked to 7mm is an old wildcat going back to the mid-20th Century. Called the 277 Elliott Express. It was designed for imported double rifles. There was also a .303 and a .357 version. I believe the ammo was all custom loaded but there were probably shooters who made and loaded their own. The only loading data that I know of is in Phil Sharpes book but it is very outdated and probably not useful.

Should be a good cartridge.

Ray

I've got Garry Reeders info on this wildcat. It should be fun to play with not the first one I was really interested in, but got a great deal on the barrel.

Please keep us posted on all your experiences. That is one of the cartridges I'm thinking about going with. It will be the 280GNR or the 338GNR.

quote:

Originally posted by Grey Eagle:
Please keep us posted on all your experiences. That is one of the cartridges I'm thinking about going with. It will be the 280GNR or the 338GNR.

Will do! Unfortunately this weekend isn't going to pan out. Branded calves yesterday for Dad, and today we got drizzle and snow mix. Doesn't make of a good day at the range.

All of Garys wildcats based on the 405 winchester are great. I have the 310GNR, 338 GNR and the 378GNR, along with the 416GNR based on a necked down 50 Alaskan. I already had a Reeder 7mm Mag encore barrel when Gary started making the 280GNR..else I would have one. Good luck with it.

Woody

quote:

All of Garys wildcats based on the 405 winchester are great. I have the 310GNR, 338 GNR and the 378GNR, along with the 416GNR based on a necked down 50 Alaskan. I already had a Reeder 7mm Mag encore barrel when Gary started making the 280GNR..else I would have one. Good luck with it.

Woodrow,

Do you have a brake on your 338GNR? What length barrel? Is the accuracy between the 310 and the 338 pretty close?

Thanks,

Gray Eagle,

All of my Reeder encore barrels have a brake, even the 7mm Rem mag(no muzzle rise at all). The 338GNR is a heavy taper stainless 16" total and the 310GNR is a heavy taper stainless at 15" total(brakes are 2"). I have only shot the 338 and 310 at 100 yards and both have no problem getting inside 1.5", which is quite good for the level of power you are dealing with. I have recently purchased some 200gr Accubonds to try in the 338GNR and I think they will shoot a bit better group than the 210gr Partition. I also just got some 150gr Nosler E-Tips for the 310GNR to try out. The brakes work very well, however when you get into the 338 and 378 brackets you need to get a firmer grip and in some cases accurracy suffers a bit. That 378GNR will crack you in the head if you are not paying attention. I have yet to shoot my 416GNR barrel. These encores do get a lot of attention at the range. If I had to choose between the 310GNR and the 338GNR, the 338 would get the nod simply because its more versatile and shoots flat too.

Woody

All,

BTW, at the prices Gary charges for a new encore barrel why just choose one. I like the 280GNR and 338GNR combo idea....versatility for 98% of the game animals anywhere in the world.

The 500 S&W in his 10" (w/brake) mini-beast is a hoot too.

Woody

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
All,

BTW, at the prices Gary charges for a new encore barrel why just choose one. I like the 280GNR and 338GNR combo idea....versatility for 98% of the game animals anywhere in the world.

The 500 S&W in his 10" (w/brake) mini-beast is a hoot too.

Woody

I got this barrel in trade so I don't know exactyly what Gary charges for barrels. I hear they are some of the most affordable. Woodrow where are you getting your .405 brass for your GNR wildcats?

quote:

BTW, at the prices Gary charges for a new encore barrel why just choose one. I like the 280GNR and 338GNR combo idea....versatility for 98% of the game animals anywhere in the world.

Woodrow,

I like your thinking, "why choose just one"
That's what made me think about the 338, in the extremely remote chance I ever got a chance to go Elk hunting I could use one barrel to do everything, but for the 99% of my other hunting it would be way overkill and excess recoil.

I think the 280 would do 99% of everything I would ever get a chance to do. My thinking is get a 20" barrel for my Encore pistol without the brake and the extra length/weight would minimize recoil.

I believe that the cost for barrels up to 15" are around $300 and a little more for 16"+, which can be used as a rifle with the buttstock. I am getting properly headstamped brass from Andy Rowe at Cartridge Performance Engineering and you can find the link to his site on Garys website. A longer barrel can increase the velocity and double as a carbine too with the buttstock, but a long barrel as a pistol is not for me. I like portability.

Woody

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I believe that the cost for barrels up to 15" are around $300 and a little more for 16"+, which can be used as a rifle with the buttstock. I am getting properly headstamped brass from Andy Rowe at Cartridge Performance Engineering and you can find the link to his site on Garys website. A longer barrel can increase the velocity and double as a carbine too with the buttstock, but a long barrel as a pistol is not for me. I like portability.

Woody

My barrel is a 17" so I could use it as a carbine barrel although it is drilled for pistol forends. I don't care for the brake but it works! I'm sure that is a good thing.

Thanks for the heads up on the brass, I'll go check out Gary's site.

So exept for the AI shoulder, it is an exact copy of the 7x65R Brenneke from 1917?

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
So exept for the AI shoulder, it is an exact copy of the 7x65R Brenneke from 1917?

Probably? You would probably know more about that than I would. There really isn't anything new out there! However I'm in it for the experience and the fun of it!

Well finally got to go to the range today and shoot this pistol. Thought I'd start with the fire form loads to get on paper, good idea in theory. Luckily I was on paper at 50 yards with my first round.

Fired the first shot hit paper all excited. Extracted the round to examine it not so excited. Had two vertical splits in the shoulder area. Thought might be a fluke, so chambered another round and fired. Hit paper again real close to the first shot, extracted the case again a split in the shoulder area.

Decided to call it quits on the whole fire form process for the day. Decided to shoot some of the loads I worked up. First three shot group had all three shots come in around 1" , second 3 shot group came in under an inch, and the next two groups I shot opened up to about 2". All this was done at 50 yards. Started to notice the recoil in my hand so called it quits figured I could come back and finish up the rest of my groups another day.

So I need some help from all of you who have to fire form loads. My load was 140 grain bulk bullet with 50 grains H4350 and CCI 200 primers. Would you back off the powder? if you look in the pictures at the top of the page I do have to move the shoulder quite a bit. Am I on the right track? Should I use a lighter bullet to FF with if I need to reduce the powder charge? I'm just going off the data I got from the guy who traded me the barrel and using the FF load that he did.

I did the final size using a .280 Rem die instead of the .280 GNR because they chambered easier in the barrel. The .280 Rem has a much longer neck than the GNR by quite a bit. Could this be my culprit as well? I'd hate to ruin all these case they cost me $1 a piece at least for .405 Win brass.

IMHO it would be better to head space off the shoulder than the rim and avoid unnecessary stretch. Easy chambering ain't all good. roger

What should I do then? Run it back up to .308 diameter and then run it through the size die again?

Problem was I couldn't get the frame to lock up when I ran it through the GNR size die. That is why I used my .280 die.

Personally if starting from the start with .405 cases I would try useing bushings such as Butch Lambert's and bring that neck down as close as I could get it. I would play with these untill The action just locks up. Than the thing to do is use the IMP dies to get the correct neck ID. Than have at it. A little annealing couldn't hurt but it might not help a whole lot. the idea is ,I think to get as close to the chamber dimension before fire forming. roger

I'll be glad to give you my Phone # on a PM or E-Mail

The best advice...get it from Gary Reeder, Andy Rowe or Sean Harper(tested and did load development for Gary)....all of them can be reached on Garys website. These are the knowledgable people with GNR specific calibers if there is ever a problem.

BTW, I lose plenty of brass when fireforming 22 hornet to 22 K-Hornet with splits in the shoulders...maybe 20%.

Woody

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Personally if starting from the start with .405 cases I would try useing bushings such as Butch Lambert's and bring that neck down as close as I could get it. I would play with these untill The action just locks up. Than the thing to do is use the IMP dies to get the correct neck ID. Than have at it. A little annealing couldn't hurt but it might not help a whole lot. the idea is ,I think to get as close to the chamber dimension before fire forming. roger

I'll be glad to give you my Phone # on a PM or E-Mail

Thanks bartsche, I took Woodrow S advice and talked to Gary Reeder yesterday. He told me to pull the bullets and drop the powder charge by about 10 grains and put some toilet paper in the case to keep the powder column in place. Gary thought I pushed the neck back too far (same as you) and that is what is causing my cracks because the cartridge isn't being supported at the shoulder.

He didn't think running an expander ball would help much. He has a step down die I can buy as well that I'll buy to prevent this from happening again if his suggestion doesnt work. I'll pull the bullets and change the powder and see how things go.

I'll keep everyone informed.

Thanks again!

Hang in their old buddy and if I can help let me know. roger