Hello from Scotland~

One of these days im goin to build a wildcat based on a .308 for the purpose of a deer rifle.

Question is which one ?? Im thinking 24",25" possibly 26" barrel.....

.25 Souper AI
.260 Rem AI
.270-08 AI
7mm-08 AI

Any one got any experince or advice ?

Regards Englander

For our skinny southern whitetails, I'd be in favor of the 257. The bullet selection is best on the light end (~100gr) and would make an ideal flat-shooting coyote rifle as well. But...since your red stags outweigh our bucks by 50kg, I'd lean to the 7mm. The bullet selection is slimmest in .277 and very weak in 6.5mm until you get in the >120 grain range, where the 7mm shines, IMO. I personally don't think you need more than 24" of barrel and I'd probably go 22" in 7mm/08 AI. In reality, since there's only 0.027" between them, there'll likely be little difference on the receiving end.

I lean towards the 7mm. Nice bullet selection. However if you are leaning towards the 308 as your base case I wouldn't worry about improving it. Unless you just want a wildcat. The taper is so small to begin with you are only talking about 2 grains of powder. You can gain more than this with a little longer COL. I would lean towards a 21-22" barrel. I assume you are wanting a nice light rifle since you are basing on the 308. Why put a longer barrel on it. From a 22 -26" you would give up at the most 50fps.

I beg to differ there. My 7-08AI with 26" tube does 3185 with a 140XLC over a charge of H-Varget. Have had no pressure signs and accuracy is superb. My rifle sports a #6 heavy douglass barrel but a fluted #5 should be just fine. I have several one shot kills with that combo @368yds(rangefinder reading to back of foodplot). Evey one dropped at the shot. Although the 7-08AI seems to be less affected by barrel length than other calibers, I still prefer to have that longer barrel. I want every ounce of velocity i can get.

I prefer the .308 outright in a 22" or 23" barrel, should be plenty. Otherwise, 7mm-08 would be the ticket for a little extra range, a 140gr 7mm would move a little quicker, fly a little flatter, and probably out-penetrate a 150gr .308 overall, and moving down the line, ditto for a .260 shooting 129gr pills. Basically, flip a coin.

Well if you are getting that velocity then you have something other than the norm. LoadTech shows that with 48.8 grains of Varget which is around 100% of case capacity depending on your COL the pressure is 70,000 and velocity would be 2815.

The 308 case is a near 'improved' case to begin with. Remember that you can only gain a 1% velocity increase for each 4% increase in case capacity. 1% of 2800fps is 28fps. May be much ado about nothing.

I think that the availability of 7mm bullets should be deciding factor. I have a 7-08 and a 7x57 soon. Unless you are just dead set for it go with the non AI first. If you do I don't think that you will ever change. BTW, I'm with you. I like longer barrels. capt david

26"barrel. 44.5 grains of H-varget. bullet seated .035 off the lands. barnes 140xlc. readings were taken with an ohler p35 chrono. cases are on their 5th loading and I have found no damage yet. no loose primer pockets, no cracks, nothing. Maybe I did get a fast barrel. But I like it. accuracy is consistantly in the .3's. Cant help what yer computer program tells ya.

or you build a 358, AI or not and fire pistol bullets for plinkin'. they also do a serious number on coyotes. turn into a bag o' mush........
woofer

So far, I have not seen a suggestion that can beat the .308 Winchester caliber for a deer rifle..It really is a fine caliber, and I believe 30 cal. is the best route, it leaves a good blood trail and has no tendency to close up like the smaller calibers do....

You might want to try the 6.5 X 51 long neck. roger

Yeah, I was going to suggest more or less the same thing. Not sure if you have a rifle picked out for the project, but a M70 with a long-throated 260 Rem might be just the ticket. A featherweight with a skinny 25" bbl would be super sweet if you could handle the recoil. I'm thinking 140's at around 2850....

But if you are hunting in close, and 250 yd is a long shot, then the 338-08 would be a tun o' fun with a 20" bbl and 210's.

Is there a special reason why it has to be on the .308 case? Also what is the size of the largest animal that will be shot and the distance also?

Some other wildcat's that would fit in a short action are off of the .284 Win case and that holds more powder than the 308 does.

The 6.5 X 284 has a good reputation on targets and Lapua makes brass. Such a round would be neat for varmints also.

I suppose a .284 Win would be too ordinary!

No matter how much you improve a 308 case it's never going to be as big as the 284.

There are other cases that could be jammmed into a short action if thats why you picked the 308 case. Even the WSM's Saums and WSSM's will fit.

I have a feeling that a 375-08 would put a big smile on your face. The expansion ratio will qualify it for some dense, high energy ball powders like AA 1680 and 2230 to make good use of the case capacity. The Hornady 225 and 270 spire points are not very long and have decent BCs as well as being very inexpensive. You should get 2600 fps in a 22 inch bbl with the 225 grainer and it should perform well on deer.

Some of the decent 338 bullets are quite long and I don't think anything very heavy will fit into the 308 mag and chamber.

Boys and their toys, the only difference in boys and men is the cost of mens toys...Never a truer statement when it comes to guns...and I'm as guilty as the next guy or was up until about 15 years ago...

So far not a caliber mentioned will kill a deer one bit better under any circumstances than the .308, so why toss the money out the window...or if you must then use the .308 factory enhanced ammo that beats the 06 a bit....

As a matter of fact all the calibers mentioned kill about the same, believe it or not...There is very little difference in any of them in actual killing power, until you get to the 338 Win. or 375s, at least at reasonalbe ranges...

Took me 60 years to figure that one out, and will take some of you even longer!

I built a 7-08AI a few years ago and since I've already spend my money, of course I love it. But like Ray said, it woun't kill a deer any deader than the standard 7mm-08 or any other suitable cartridge appropriate for deer. Deer just aren't that difficult to kill. I spent the money for a custom rifle, and decided on the 7-08AI for the cartridge. It doesn't cost any more to have the chamber reamed for the improved chamber than the standard version, but dies cost more. Velocity increase is minimal with an Ackley based on the 308 case, unless chamber pressure is increased, but the slightly straighter-walled Ackely chamber will safely allow for a little more chamber peressure. It's not likely that a deer will notice the 75-100fps difference in impact velocity. This rifle is simply my toy. If you are hell-bent on building an Ackley, you can't do better than the 7-08AI. It will do anything the smaller bores will do, plus handle heavier bullets for a little more versatility.

Having said all that, I'd be just as happy using a standard 7mm-08 for deer. If that isn't enough horsepower for the game I'm pursuing, it's easier to just step up to my 300 WinMag.

I know on the Wildcat forum this may be heresy and punishable by gilflurting and by running ones leg through a slit in his scrotum, but every wildcat I ever sold, got discounted in price because it was a wildcat!! Something to consider in my books....

Hey Englander,

I have hunted in the thick woods of Pennsylvania for many years and have taken many deer with a few different rifles. The range at which we normally shoot is within 50 yards; most being within 25 yards. For that shooting I have, through experience, decided that the .303 British is the absolute maximum. I say this because the bullet is slow enough that at 20 feet you don't have a blood shot deer and at 150 yards you are not under-gunned.

I don't know the distance you normally harvest your deer in Scotland but if the range isn't beyond 100 yards I would consider a larger caliber(or calibre).

9.3mm x .308 would make a great woods rifle! The velocity would be nice and slow and the knockdown power would be tremendous - even for larger game than deer, at the same range.

You're on an enjoyable quest - Good Luck and Good Shooting!

Smoker

The .308 win. is perfect, if you must, why not try the .358 win?

The 7mm get's my vote also. Lot's of bullets to choose from. I agree that a straight7/08 may be the way to go with this case. It's small enough and blown out to the point you can't get much powder gain from going AI...unless you've just got to scratch a wildcat itch(which I totally understand). I'm getting an honest 2970 out of a 22" barrel with 140 Barnes XTS and 41.5gr/Varget from my new Kimber Montana 7/08. Acurracy is outstanding. The one deer I shot so far(big buck)did'nt leave it's tracks.
BTW, I'm not new to Barnes X and have shot numerous deer with 25, 6.5 and several 7mm chamberings So far, except for two total misses, all have resulted in one shot kills.The Triple Shock version seems more accurate, has equal terminal performance and leaves less copper fauling.

I have been debating the same question because I am a .308 fan. Like waterfouler said, the deer here in the South are small, and tons of them have been killed with the .243 Win which is basically 6mm-08 (I think). So any of them will work. I am not partial to .25 caliber or .270 because there is not as much ammo variety available as the 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30 cal.

With my custom .308 with 26" bbl, I chronographed a 165gr Hornady Interbond at over 2800 fps. So unless I knew I could get well over 3000 fps from a smaller caliber, I would just stay with good ole .308 Win. The 160gr 7mm bullets and 140gr 6.5mm bullets are very inticing with their high BCs though.