I have gone thru all 63 pages in the wildcat section and came up with little info as to why the few fans mentioned how they like the round. Is there feeding problems associated with their controlled fed actions as mine is a newer mod 70 CRF and am considering this chambering. I hope you who have had this chambering can explain to me your benefit as you see it. What actually is the capacity differences-1.5 to 2 grns? is that all? I would choose of course a 250 or larger bullet weight for most carrying situations. What charges/velocities were you getting when you noticed your case head expansion was at its max of what .0005" and suspect at what pressures? Clue me in as you see it and if you had to do it all over again would you consider it again. thanks.

I have never used a AI in a M70. I use 98s. Feeding has not been a problem. I would say on the 338-06 35 Whelen an increase in the range of 2 grs would be about right. That is a 3% increase in powder so figure a .75% increase in velocity. On a 250 gr you are talking 2500x.0075=18.75FPS. For me it was never worth the trouble.

Don't get me wrong. I like improved cases. I designed my own. Looks like an improved 280 Gibbs. I used it from 6mm to 416. My favorite elk rifle is a 338 using this case. It gives 11% increase in powder. But that is still only around a 100fps increase.

Any increase in an 06 based case that is greater than 1% velocity for 4% powder is caused by going to a higher pressure. Using a pressure guage several times has verified it for me.

For me going to the extra trouble and expense to make a 338-06AI for a 20fps increase would not be worth it. I build mine simply because I already have the reamer and it makes great conversation around the campfire.

I would also consider the 210 or 225grs. I feel they are better suited for that size case. They will shoot flatter and I don't think you give up anything on the stopping end.

In a good bolt action there is no reason not to go up to 65,000 psi with the 338-06, where you will find 2640 fps with R19 and the 250 grain speer. At the same pressure, the 338 win mag gets about 130 fps more, and it makes no difference in the field. Stick with the sane and simple 338-06 and you will be very happy.

I have a std. .338-06 & the only advantage to the AI is longer case life. Either flavor, it's a great cart. especially for the guys walking around Alaska backcountry. You can build a reasonably light 22" bbl., 7.5# rifle that won't kick the crap out of you. A 250gr bullet @ 2500fps (more likely than 2650fps ) is potent medicine for even the bigger bears. The bonus is 4-5 rds in the mag too.

quote:

In a good bolt action there is no reason not to go up to 65,000 psi with the 338-06, where you will find 2640 fps with R19 and the 250 grain speer.

Sounds fast to me! My 338-06 (not AI) does just 2330fps with 61 grains of RL-19 and 250's. I thought the case was full but don't remember. There were no pressure signs though. How much powder are you using Sabot?

Oh and I prefer the lighter bullets also like the 210 and the 225's, which are a definate step up from the 30-06

I have a plain 338-06 that I have used on elk and deer. I didn't see the AI as that much of an advantage vs all the case forming work. To me, it wasn't worth it. I have only shot 200's and 210's out of mine but I have some 225's and 250's to play with. Just haven't gotten around to it.

I can't imagine anything in N. America that I couldn't take with the 250's out of my 338-06.
I have owned mine for 4 or 5 years now.

While I like my 338-06AI, I'm not sure I would do one again. On the plus side, I have never had to trim a case. The primer pockets go out before the case gets too long (I do shoot it a lot). The fireforming is a bit of a pain, though. You can't do this AI for any performance increase, so your motivation has to lie somewhere else.

Next time, I would most likely go with the regular 338-06 and put up with trimming cases as needed. I prefer the 210-225 bullets also. I really like the whole 338-06 concept. It's about perfectly balanced, if you ask me.

captain, I understand the fireforming process. I do that process on my .30-30AI. I have gone with the original .338-06 chambering although I like the 40 degree shoulder. This is my gift to my daughter and she is thrilled about my investment in getting her CRF chambered to where it is managable in the recoil department and delivers a fine bullet with knockdown and accuracy. I went with the PacNor super match bore-just a process of indepth smoothness of the bore. Extra 20 bucks-not a problem. thanks.

I had one about 12 years ago built on a HVA small ring (4100?). It was a gibbs type similar to what ramrod described, minimum Ackley taper and the neck shortened to 0.33"

Top loads were around 69 grains of 4831 or RL19 and a 225 Hornady or Nosler for around 2825 fps and a 24" barrel.

Mine fed, but very notchy, and the last round wanted to jump out past the rails. Having said that, I never messed with the rails or anything.

My current 22" standard 338-06 drives the same bullets at 2700 even with 62 gr of 4350.

At the time I liked the idea, but now I go for simplicity and don't worry about 100 fps.

I just found a bunch of formed cases in my loading room, if you want them to play around with feeding and case capacity you are welcome to them for shipping cost

quote:

Originally posted by naja302:

quote:

In a good bolt action there is no reason not to go up to 65,000 psi with the 338-06, where you will find 2640 fps with R19 and the 250 grain speer.

Sounds fast to me! My 338-06 (not AI) does just 2330fps with 61 grains of RL-19 and 250's. I thought the case was full but don't remember. There were no pressure signs though. How much powder are you using Sabot?

Oh and I prefer the lighter bullets also like the 210 and the 225's, which are a definate step up from the 30-06

I use 66 grs of R19 with a Speer 250 and COL 3.420. BBL is 24 inch Encore. This is a compressed load.

quote:

Originally posted by Sabot:
In a good bolt action there is no reason not to go up to 65,000 psi with the 338-06, where you will find 2640 fps with R19 and the 250 grain speer. At the same pressure, the 338 win mag gets about 130 fps more, and it makes no difference in the field. Stick with the sane and simple 338-06 and you will be very happy.

This is in line with my thinking as well....

Here's some loads that I worked up from my 338-06 AI. Shot from a Interarms MK X w/ 24 " barrel. Use with caution in other rifles of course. I load for a combo of vel and accuarcy.

180 NBT
59.0 gr RL12
vel 2980

200 Hor SP
63.0 gr H414
vel 2778

215 SRA GK
63.0 gr H4350
vel 2740
This is my all around load

250 SRA GK
62.0 gr H4350
vel 2560

I have a 25.5 inch 338-06 AI barrel for my Sauer 200. The last lot number of Rel 19 I used loaded 64.5 gr (highly compressed) under a Nosler 200 gr BT with Federal 215 primers for 2880 fps average. This was not a real hot load in my gun but as always, start 10% low and start with standard primers. I didn't get a lot more velocity with the 215s but groups shrank to about .75" for 5 shots from 1.25" with 210s.

I thought 2880 was smokin' from a -06 based case with 200 gr bullet then and still think so now.

the more this is discussed I see that if one wanted a AI version in this caliber it would be for the simple fact you wanted an AI. It has become clear to me and now too, I have shown my daughter all of these threads and some ballistics from the Nosler 5th ed and she too is clear as well on one vs. the other. The .06 case is exceptionally versatile - no question about it. thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I have a 25.5 inch 338-06 AI barrel for my Sauer 200. The last lot number of Rel 19 I used loaded 64.5 gr (highly compressed) under a Nosler 200 gr BT with Federal 215 primers for 2880 fps average. This was not a real hot load in my gun but as always, start 10% low and start with standard primers. I didn't get a lot more velocity with the 215s but groups shrank to about .75" for 5 shots from 1.25" with 210s.

I thought 2880 was smokin' from a -06 based case with 200 gr bullet then and still think so now.

Tiggertate:

How the heck did you get a Sauer 200 barrel in .338-06 Improved? Please advise. I would love to have one on my Sauer 202.


Thanks,


Jordan

quote:

Originally posted by free_miner:
I had one about 12 years ago built on a HVA small ring (4100?). It was a gibbs type similar to what ramrod described, minimum Ackley taper and the neck shortened to 0.33"

Top loads were around 69 grains of 4831 or RL19 and a 225 Hornady or Nosler for around 2825 fps and a 24" barrel.

Mine fed, but very notchy, and the last round wanted to jump out past the rails. Having said that, I never messed with the rails or anything.

My current 22" standard 338-06 drives the same bullets at 2700 even with 62 gr of 4350.

At the time I liked the idea, but now I go for simplicity and don't worry about 100 fps.

I just found a bunch of formed cases in my loading room, if you want them to play around with feeding and case capacity you are welcome to them for shipping cost

I don't know how you guys are getting all that powder in that little bitty case. My .338-06 pretty much maxs out @ 62gr w/ a 250gr Hrdy or GS.

quote:

Originally posted by Jordan:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I have a 25.5 inch 338-06 AI barrel for my Sauer 200. The last lot number of Rel 19 I used loaded 64.5 gr (highly compressed) under a Nosler 200 gr BT with Federal 215 primers for 2880 fps average. This was not a real hot load in my gun but as always, start 10% low and start with standard primers. I didn't get a lot more velocity with the 215s but groups shrank to about .75" for 5 shots from 1.25" with 210s.

I thought 2880 was smokin' from a -06 based case with 200 gr bullet then and still think so now.

Tiggertate:

How the heck did you get a Sauer 200 barrel in .338-06 Improved? Please advise. I would love to have one on my Sauer 202.


Thanks,


Jordan

Jordan, I sent a Sauer 270 barrel to Cliff LaBounty and had it rebored and chambered. He has since sold his business but someone like Dan Pedersen or Jim DuBell (who bought Cliff's business) might take one on. Back in the day (late 80s or early 90s) it cost $165 which was actually more than the barrel cost. How things have changed!

LaBounty ususally declined working on hammer-forged barrels because they are so work-hardened but after he did mine he said the Sauer barrels cut like butter.

Slicker feeding with a .338-06.

I have a 338-06 AI in a push-feed Model 70. The 338-06 is a terrific and hard-hitting cartridge (a 225 grain spitzer bullet at 2700 fps); but I agree with most of the other posters that at equal pressures, the AI version won't get you enough additional velocity to make the AI version worthwhile if all you are after is velocity. Maybe 30 or 40 fps additional.

I don't have any feeding problems with my AI; but I don't have a CRF rifle.