After reading these posts for a while and dreaming about a few Wildcats that I might like to play with I asked myself: How complicated does it get? Of all the wildcats out there, which one involves the most steps to arrive at the finished product?

Anyone can run a factory case through a neck sizer or fire one in an AI chamber, but when you get into trimming length or rims and annealing a few times I think we're getting into "complicated" territory.

Please share your experiences and stories.

[ 08-18-2003, 10:35: Message edited by: Gonzo FreakPower ]

The 5mm Craig can get a bit complicated - duplicating an obsolete rimrire round using returned Hornet brass to get the rim right. But the most complicated Wildcat I've done was when I trimmed the 5.7x28 to 16mm, necked it to 0.300 OD neck, inside reamed to 0.281 to thin the neck, and continued the neck reduction to 0.250 for a 22 caliber wildcat. Ended up anealing a couple of times, and with short cases like this that's tricky for me.

While my 350 Rigby isn't a wildcat, I'm unwilling to pay $3 a case for soft Bertram brass, so form cases from 375 H&H. On the lathe I have to cut down the rim, remove the belt, and deepen the extractor groove. Then I run them through the FL sizer die, hoping to sufficiently set back the 45 degree shoulder, if it isn't set back enough on the first pass, the brass is wasted. Then I have to go back to the lathe to trim to the 2.70" case length. Then a fireform.

When I use once fired 375 H&H brass, I find that the neck/shoulder junction comes out very thin, and the brass will split there after a firing or two.

I think after many hours on the lathe, and starting with nearly 100 various cases, I have about 2 good boxes of brass.

On the up side, the case feeds and extracts very slick, and I can easily drive 250 gr @ 2700 fps, with 5/8" groups, not bad w/ only a 2.5x scope.

How about making 7mm Gradle Express cases?
Take a 348win. case, turn rim off, cut an extractor groove into the case, neck down to 7mm, and then formfire. That's a wildcat. Pete

Vibe - what were you trying to make, the 5.45x18 Russian? Is there any way I can talk you into parting with one of those cases, for my collection of "oddities"?

As to my more extravagant endeavours:

458 SOCOM - have the 50 AE LENGTHENED, rim rebated to 0.473" and then neck it to .458 caliber. You can make it from 425 WR brass or 404 Jeffery brass, but then you trim, neck turn and rebate the rim (on the Jeffery)

510 Phalanx - take 577 NE, turn rim to rebated rimless Rigby size, trim, neck & turn

308 Sabre - trim, form and turn necks forever

You folks are gonna be a real inspiration and comfort to me the next time someone tells me the stuff I do is weird.

I got the notion to make a .224 bullet do what the 243 Win does. Of course it must have been done before but I wanted to copy the short fat low aspect PPC design. So I selected the belted magnum case as it was the biggest one that was common or that I really knew about. If someone was using 404 brass at the time I did not know about it. The design was a case 2.0" long with a .300" long neck and it retained the common 25 degree shoulder. The headspace was controlled by the shoulder as I left clearance for the belt.

A friend who is an high level engineer made the actual drawings from my sketches and my dad made up test cartridges for modeling by cutting down 7mm Rem Mags. The drawings were sent out for bid and I think it was Iver Hendrickson who replied that they were the finest drawings that he had ever seen. This was a compliment to the engineer who did them and not to the design. Clymer got the order due to price and RCBS made the form, ream and loading dies and got it right the first try.

The rifle was a old M 70 in 264 WM and a Douglas SS 26" barrel was chambered by a local smith and installed. The cases were made on the three form dies, cut off die and ream die from 6.5 Rem Mag cases as they are shorter than the 7mm Rem Mag brass that RCBS said to make sure the die set would handle.

The heaviest bullet that I could get was the Allred 88 gr partition. This was a very accurate bullet that would group 1.5" at 200 yds and make 3200 fps with a slow powder like 7828.

At first, like many new projects, there was a zeal for it and cases were formed and trimmed etc.

Then the barrel was shot a lot at targets and load development. The only program I had was the Powley slide rule but the case is a little bigger than the 243 Win capacity wise so 243 data could be compared to some extent.

When the 1-9 twist barrel was new the rifle would shoot the first two shots into about one hole like many other varmint calibers will do.

I shot some chucks and other varmints with it but I was using the 69 gr MK for that for the most part and that bullet does not expand well and also richocets. It was a bad choice. I ended up using the 60 gr HP as that shot the best and opened up much better. I carried this heavy rifle deer hunting one day but did not get a shot and I left it in the trunk after that.

One day at the range I had soaked some newspapers in water and made a bullet test for the 88 gr Allred. I shot into it and the bullet performed very well. It mushroomed back but since it's only .224 to start with the expanded diameter was nothing like that of what happened next. An old timer was there at the club watching and he was shooting a 270 with 140 gr Hornady reloads. I asked him to shoot into my test media to compare the size of the hole. The hole from the 270 at maybe 50 yards was at least twice the diameter of the one the 224 bullet made. This was the end of it. I would not even shoot deer with such a weak load as sometimes I take raking or running shots.

This whole project was not a lot different than climbing Mount Washington by foot. As many of you know there is a road to the top of Mount Washington in NH and one can drive to the top in good weather.

Mine is not a wildcat, but is interesting to make cases for. I have a 70 cal pinfire Howda. I start with 50 BMG cases, turn the base down in the lathe, then turn a very slim tapered rim on it. Mill out a recess in the case head, solder the old primer into the pocket. Drill a no 43 hole in the old extractor groove at an angle, then cut off a 3D finish nail for the pin. Load with a no. 11 magnum muzzle loader cap inside the case under the pin, Black powder, some filler and a 12ga 1oz lee slug cast from a heavily shimmed mold.

Oh and cut the case to 1.6"
pics at
http://members.fortunecity.com/howda/howda.html

It is either the .220 Eargeschplittenloudenboomer, or the Tyrolean Triple-necked Terror, the parent "case" for which starts out as a 5-litre pewter beer mug of a particular variety found only in one Gasthaus on the outskirts of Innsbruck, Austria, and which is formed in a series of steps without the use of sizing dies, thus rendering the final product a case with three different neck sizes. This round fires three different, but unknown, calibers of solid and exploding projectiles at the same time from a single-barreled Bergstutzen! The gun can only be fired by the person who drank the beer from the original case, er, mug, er, stein!!

Waidmann's Heil, Gros Schw

[ 08-19-2003, 03:25: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Rob and I building the 12GA From Hell, might be
most complicated.Turning the rim off of BMG case.
Threading it.Threading a thick brass washer
to screw on to it.Then turning a 12 ga size rim
on it to make a super strong, super long 12 ga diameter case.Annealing front of the case and expanding it to .729 12 ga diameter.The only redeeming feature
of the physical work involved is that the case is
real big, so it is easier to get a hold on compared to
miniature wildcats.Oh you have have bigger presses;But it is going to be a fun
cartridge.Ed.

tera

Which case I must use to make .220 Eargeschplittenloudenboomer
The specs are as follows:


case length?
At shoulder?
Neck length?
Degree shoulder?
COA ?

I was planning a wildcat based on a 105mm howitzer necked down to .338 but kept running into problems with bolt face and case head problems. I was going to name it the .338 WTF.

7 mm Graydill Magnum, .348 win with a venturi shoulder, and the rim rebated to work in a mauser bolt face. You need to use a hydraulic press to form the brass

Aleko

I am going to second Aleko on the 7 mm Express developed by Roy Gradle. Ralph Payne also made rifles.

There is a lengthy paragraph in P.O. Ackley's Handbook that just outlines the procedure to build and use a hydraulic/pneumatic widget to form the shoulder. Then you have to turn the rims off the basic .348 Win brass.

The cartridge was developed before chronographs were commonly available, or folks would have figured out pretty damn quick the it was not worth the trouble.

Ackley reports that Ralph Payne also did a similar cartridge starting with .300 Magnum brass.

jim

quote:

Originally posted by OddBall2:
I was planning a wildcat based on a 105mm howitzer necked down to .338 but kept running into problems with bolt face and case head problems. I was going to name it the .338 WTF.

Now that's funny!!!!!

Jimno

well, I got the bug to build a 22-378Wby five or six years back, that's a tedious process to produce cases from 378Wby. Mine is an Ackley-style 35-degree shoulder

Rich

The .17 x 22-250....tried it years ago and the necks split a lot upon fire-forming.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

Lar, good pics and a good job with the Howdah. Aren't you glad you didn't convert it to center fire!?

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:
Oh and cut the case to 1.6"<br />pics at<br /><a href="http://members.fortunecity.com/howda/howda.html" target="_blank">http://members.fortunecity.com/howda/howda.html</a>

Are the pins put in after loading or do you promise yourself to never ever ever drop one on the pin ?

Got a 2mm, yes 2mm pinfire single shot pistol and I've no idea how to replace my spent brass??
You guys seem to know what your doing, any hints?

SMc cartridges, some interesting wintertime reading: http://www.superiorballistics.com/

The most complicated I have heard of was Steve Herrit building a 17-44 Mag. The brass had to be anneled before necking it down at each step. There are quite a few steps between 44 & 17. He also lost about 50% of the cases during the process. He had a nice looking Martni carbine chambered for it.

My 6mm 30-30 AI is probably not the most difficult. But it is all I care to put into case prep...........
It involves all the usual processes. Trimming, necking, multi-annealing, sizing, neck turning etc.

quote:

Originally posted by tera:
tera

Which case I must use to make .220 Eargeschplittenloudenboomer
The specs are as follows:


case length?
At shoulder?
Neck length?
Degree shoulder?
COA ?

the eargeschpletenloundenboomer is essentially
a 22-460Wby.

Ive been wondering why it too so long for the creation of the 416Barrett, which is a 50BMG necked down to 416.

I'm waiting for someone to "turd polish" this one and make a 416Barrett-AI

Of coures the next thing will be a 375 version
of the 50BMG...

AllanD