My shooting buddy just rebarreled a 338 Win Mag Savage 116 to this wildcat, and after working with it I cannot figure out why this is not a more popular round. It is the 375 H&H, 9.3X64 and 358 Norma Mag all rolled into one.

We actually seat Sierra 300 gr Pro Hunters into 338 brass without expanding the neck (these are boat tails), and do the same thing with 260 gr Nosler Accubonds after pulling 250 grainers from loaded factory 338 ammo. The 338 velocity is duplicated with a drop in pressure.

So, if you have a puller and a Lee hand press, you can have 375/338 ammo any place there is 338 Win Mag ammo without transporting powder or primers. The expansion ratio in a 22 inch bbl is the same as the 308 Win, and the same powders that are so efficient on the 308 are also great in the 375/338.

300 grainers clock 2575 fps with W760 and Hornady 225s top 3000 fps with Varget.

So, why is this not a very popular round? Clue me in, please...

Years ago when Neal Knox was still the editor of Handloader and Rifle magazines, there was an article concerning this wildcat and a famous baseball player.

There was a delay in a baseball game due to weather and this baseball player was doing an interview with the baseball announcer. Somehow the delaying conversation got onto hunting and the fact that this baseball player built this 375/338 wildcat on a left-hand Savage action. Think this was before the long left-hand Remington actions were commonly available.

Because the ball player did not own a chronograph, he fired up his Beechcraft Bonanza plane and flew to Prescott, Arizona, so that Neal Knox could chronograph some loads for him. (Neal also flew Bonanzas at that time.) This might be the greatest expense for chronographing a few loads in history and somehow beats the stories concerning $500 hamburgers among pilots.

So the 375/338 wildcat has been featured on national television during a baseball game and in national publications a long ways back.

Hammer

Sabot,

It looks like you've discovered something really good. Are you using that for deer there on the other side of the mountain? Seriously, it sounds good to me.

I've been pondering a big rifle (more like a 9.3x62 or .35 Whelen) but have been playing with flintlocks and Contender carbines. This might be fun!

I would have to say the reason it is not more popular is that the uses that a 375 sees most in the hunting field are situations where the hunter wants the option of factory ammo if he is parted with his handloads. And thus, why go to the expense of a wildcat when factory 375 H&H's are commonly available?

The 375 simply isn't of much interest to the experimentor. It doesn't have the high bc numbers as favored by the flat and fast shooters that choose hot 300's or 338's, nor does it have the heavy hit of true large bores.

The 375 is an outstanding hunting round as is, and for hardened hunters, there is no reason to go with the wildcats. The 375 H&H works as is, and at over 90 years of age, there will be no improvements by using other cases to hold more or less powder.

Paul -

I hear you on the 375 H&H, but having the H&H power in an '06 length action would seem attractive to those of us that build and rebarrel big game rifles. Why would anyone use a long action if they don't need it?

Lets just say that if the 375/338 was a factory round, it would compete with the 338 Win Mag far better than the 375 H&H...I would not look twice at the H&H if I needed 9.3X64 power and trajectory. Just the ability to headspace off the shoulder with handloads is worth it.

We really need something in the class of the 9.3X64 in the US...its a shame it is not more popular here. A 375/338 is right there, with a much better bullet selection. And, there are advantages to dropping down to the 308's expansion ratio and velocities from a consistency and accuracy perspective. It also places it in the 22 inch bbl category...nothing wrong eith that.

Now, I am not saying that the 375/338 should replace the 375 H&H...for one thing you can't throw away 90 years of history...but it IS a very efficient and easy to formed wildcat that qualifies as "the one caliber to hunt anything, anywhere" just as much as the H&H is.

Sabot,

I think the 375 bore would be extremely unpopular if it was not for the 375 H&H and everything thing that is associated with that calibre.

You have the 375 Ultra but you would agree it is deader than dead on these forums and remember these forums are populated by a lot of gun nuts. In fact I would go as far as to say that if the 375 H&H was discontinued tomorrow then you would not see much of a rise in 375/338 or 375 Ultra sales. Rather you might see the 416 Rigby go right up in sales.

In a nutshell, sales of 375 bore size rifles are because of the 375 H&H, not the 375 bore size.

Mike

Hammer,
That was Mike Epstein talking about his .375/.300 WinMag wildcat, called the .375 Epstein, which is a little bit longer that the .375/.338 WinMag. Some wild velocities were claimed for the .375 Epstein.

My first gunsmith visit was to have a .375 Weatherby made up out of a .375 H&H MarkX Whitworth, back in 1987. For my next gunsmith visit the .375/.338 WinMag (.338 Chatfield Taylor) was done on an FN Mauser that started off as a Herters 30-06. Yes, it sure is easy to load for, but there is that headstamp thing ... not a problem in NA.

My .375/.338 has a 22" barrel and can easily duplicate the ballistics of factory .375 H&H ammo.

The .375/.338 = .375 H&H in the ballistics department, and that is plenty good for an '06 length cartridge. Great cartridge. I like 235 grainers from Speer in that one.

Mine is pretty heavy, but a light weight .375/.338 would make an excellent combination sheep and grizzly rifle. And it could be made a wee bit lighter than a flyweight .375 H&H. Hmm...

RIP -



Thanks for the data. Have not even tried the WW brass yet...3 more graind can't hurt. We are finding the W760 works well in the 9.5X64 at near 100% load density with 270 and 300 gr bullets. I think that this round is not especially efficient, in the sense that the new Short Mags are...its just that the H&H is, and always has been inefficient for whatever reason. In a good bolt rifle 78 grs ofusable H2O capacity should get you 4675 FPE without any pressure problems. This gives us .58 inches of shank to seat into a 94 gr case with the 375 bullets.



Bullet length can therefor go to 1.43 inches or so for the 9.5X64...plenty of room for 300 gr BTSPs and 350 gr RNs. Just seems to work out, as it does for the great, but rare, 9.3X64. Th 9.3 case is just a few grains bigger, but the bore is a tad bit smaller. The net result is that the 9.3X64 and the 9.5X64 are ballistic twins with the range of bullet weights and styles giving the 9.5X64 a bit of an advantage.

Sabot,
Now you are over my head with those metrics. Greek to me, but I do enjoy your analyses, as they have broader applicability in thinking about the cartridges I toy with.

I was about to make up a .375 Lapua, called the "9.5x69mm Tornado" in Germany, but am now having second thoughts, since the .375 Lapua has only 118 grains water capacity (though terrific case design and brass quality from Lapua).

The .375 RUM has 120 grains water capacity and allows one more round in the magazine. Using a .375 RUM, or a .375 Weatherby (111 grains water in the WBY/Norma brass) in a Rigby length magazine box seems to be the way to go to me, for versatility.

The .375 Weatherby might be the versatility champ since the .375 H&H ammo can be fired in it with good results, in a pinch for ammo.

RIP -
Thanks for the compliment.

My last project was testing the 375 RUM, and it is really a piece of work...at COL 3.68 it fot into the Rem 700 action and I got 2968 fps with IMR 7828 and the sierra 300 gr Pro Hunter without exceeding the max load in the Nosler manual. This is the equivalent of the 378 Weatherby Mag, and kicks like an SOB, so I have backed off to 2850 fps.

There are many, many good loads in the 375 RUM that duplicate the 375H&H, and some use less powder than the H&H and reduce recoil, so its quite useful for the handloader that occasionally might wan to shoot something really big really far away and still be able to keep the pucker factor down in dangerous game country.

This is just a personal thing to me, but I really am beginning to feel that the 9.5X64 is also enough in dangerous game country, and really has not disadvantage over the 375 RUM in the field except for long shots at tough critters and even then the distance at which the RUM has an advantage is farther that i will shoot for sport. Again, this is just me and is also true for the 338 Win Mag vs the 338 RUM.

These big Remington cases are really more about velocity and long range trajectory than they are about power and lethality in close, and as we all know too much velocity can be a bad thing. Jimminy, the 375 RUM launches a 225 gr Hornady at well over 3300 fps and I would really hesitate to shoot that at anything inside of 250 yards. The 9.5X64 pushes the same bullet at 3000 fps and that's more like it for something that shoots flat and won't knock your teeth loose.

Given a choice between the 338 WM, 338 RUM, 375 H&H, 375 RUM and the 9.5X64 as the one gun to hunt anything, anywhere I honestly would take the 9.5X64 in a heartbeat.

I have no problem with long actions, especially as there really isn't any difference between the factory -06 and H&H actions. Ok, longer mag and different bolt release, but it is the same action. The long action issue is only in the head of gun writers.

I do see a use for an easy to make wildcat off the 338 win mag, and it is called the 416 Taylor. There aren't a dearth of factory 416's, and the taylor has a certain niche. Then again, I think the 458 win mag is a vastly under-rated round, but there aren't racks full of them at the gun shops.

I've played with a passle of wildcats, and obsolete rounds, and the charm has worn off. You can buy a 375 H&H or less then re-barreling a 375-338, and you'll have factory ammo available. It may not be fun, it works darn well. It is also the reason the 375-338 isn't more popular.