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Does anyone know where (or if) anyone makes cases that are turned on a lathe which have the outside demensions of a standard case, but have a straight drilling down to the web which would give an extremely heavy wall thickness, and a reduced case capacity with "straight wall" characteristics in the interior? It would seem this would be an ideal configuration for those who wish to use reduced loads in standard cartridges. ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | ||
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Such a case will not seal the chamber. Join the NRA | |||
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Ah, I should have thought of that... It certainly could be subject to excessive gasses flowing back through the chamber. Thanks for the insight. ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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I recall reading somewhere that experimenters working on creating accurate subsonic 7.62x51 NATO loads tried filling cases with epoxy then drilling a 30 caliber hole down to the flash hole (but please do not take my word for it). | |||
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Mike I'm not really sure why this would be the ideal configuration. There have been many outstanding reduced loads using the bottle-necked cases and bulk powders. As you probably know, Col Townsend Whelen did this sort of thing on just about every cartridge available to him at the time. But, having said that, the Germans did a lot of testing on just that very thing. (Is there anything they didn't test?) As I recall, the results weren't too spectacular and they concluded it wasn't worth the effort. Easier to go to a different case or, as Whelen did, use bulk powders. Our own US Govt tried a different approach. They inserted cardboard or plastic liners in the case. It worked after a fashion but again, so little, or no, gain for so much work. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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Ray, I was considering the elimination of "dead air space" within the case in order to enhance consistancy and performance, even when using quick powders like Blue Dot and Unique. I am working on reduced loads for the .223 so I may dupicate .22 WMR or .22 Hornet performance (approx. 2300 fps). I am making some progress using conventional .223 cases. ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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Mike I believe some shooters have used slower powders to do what you are trying to acheive. powders like 4320, 4350, 4831, etc. I tried that approach once with the 45-70 and it worked but it does take a lot a trying to find the right combination that will give the velocity you want without leaving a lot of unburned powder. Good luck. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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Single Shot Rifles by James J. Grant illustrates 2 Sharps gallery cartridges made with reduced powder capacity.They are made of steel the capacity is 12 grs.black powder.The powder chamber is .248 dia.full length with a cavity in the neck for a round ball.Calibers were Sharps .45- 2.1/10 (45/70) and Sharps .40- 2 1/2. WC | |||
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Mike, I have a 7mm x 57 that will shoot 1.5-1.75" 3 shot groups at 200 yards with a lead GC 135gr and 11 grains of American Select. I have no idea what the velocity is but its slow, Subsonic, and with groups like that the variation in FPS between shots can't be enough to be conserned about. I'd post a pick of the targets but I left them in NH when I moved. I have heard of people using rubber tubing in the .45-70 and .458 Win to fill up some space, I havn't tried it. I just use a bulk powder. Rusty's Action Works Montross VA. Action work for Cowboy Shooters & Manufacturer of Stylized Rigby rifle sights. http://i61.photobucket.com/alb.../th_isofrontleft.jpg | |||
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To answer your question, YES. How well they work, or not, you may have to decide. http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/index.html Muffin. | |||
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Thanks Muffin, that is a very interesting site. I was also checking out the Brass Shotgun Shells!! It's been awhile since I have seen them. I saw Cabela's had some listed in their catalog about a year ago. ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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For reduced capacity, have you considered using something like a SMAW setup, with say a streightened 22 Hornet case inserted in the base of your case, and the interier volume taken up with a epoxy resin up to the neck of the hornet case?? Repriming would be fairly streight forward, unlike most of the other "forward ignition" experaments. | |||
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For safety reasons, I would not consider using epoxy to hold a smaller case within a case. Especially when it could be machined from a solid piece of brass. The idea of sending a chamber casting to the company listed above seems reasonable enough. My next concern would be with the neck sizing, and eventual splitting due to reloading, especially with a solid brass shoulder area. ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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H&N in Germany also makes them. http://www.natermann.de/sport/uk/produkte/pdf/gesch_final_02_2002.pdf Goto page 22 and have a look. I know their language is crooked and bent  | |||
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 Yes their language is "crooked and bent"... but I hear it all the time... Pa Dutch is crookeder and benter!!!That is precisely what I was looking for... they do not list the .223 cartridge, though. Now that confirms it!!! I must have some!!! ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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Mike In a true SMAW round (info here http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm), a 22Hornet blank is press fit into a larger casing, all the powder is contained in the blank. As you will probably want to reload yours, I suggest the epoxy only as a space filler, not as a adheasive.  | |||
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AA's xmp 5744 propellant is made specifically for small charges in big cases. I get std deviations in velocity in the 338 Win mag and 300 RUM in the 12 to 14 fps range with load densities under 50% with it. Speer manual #26 lists loads for 5744 in the 223 that duplicate the 22 win mag rimfire. | |||
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tailgunner, That is a rather interesting concept. Is the powder in the basde of the bullet supposed to provide an extended burn which would still keep the projectile under Mach 1? Sabot, I will look into the AA xmp 5744 powder you suggested. I don't have a Speer Manual, and non of the manuals I have contain load information for reduced loads in the .223. Thank you for the input. Your suggestions have been educational and invaluable!!! Mike ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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Mike The "powder" in that bullet, is a tracer compound. It's a training/spotting cartridge for a shoulder fired rocket launching system. As it seemed to have possibilities as the basis for a "reduced capacity" case, I figured I'd toss it out for consideration. It would certanly be a whole bunch cheaper/faster to "make your own" to this pattern, than it would be to have them custom made from the solid. Esp. if you change your mind on how much powder capacity you need. | |||
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