Hi to all. Do any of you fellas have any experience with the 30-06 AI. One of my friends has one that is exceptionally accurate and I wonder if this is a one off or is this fairly typical for the round? Velocities for a range of bullets, fave loads, stories, gossip or lies, all gratefully digested.

All the best

z

I've never seen that an AI is more or less accurate. Brass is always fireformed to the chamber. Since it is not factory chances are things might be a touch better machined.

The 06AI is has about 4% more capacity that will yield you about 1% velocity gain at factory pressure. The gain most will see from their 06AI is that factory ammo has a limit of 60,000 most will load to at least 65,000(270w limit or higher).

Fireforming offset by less case triming. A little more velocity and a great topic for around the campfire. Don't get me wrong. I have several AI and more full Gibbs style wildcats. Just don't expect to make an 06 into a full load 300Wmag.

Z

Ramrod pretty much nailed it. Don't expect an 06 Improved to be any more accurate or to even give more velocity. P.O. hisself didn't think much of the cartridge and didn't recommend it.

I have one and get a FEW more fps but not enough to brag about. I only have it because I think the 40 degree shoulder and less body taper lessen the liklihood of fired cases growing in length. I wouldn't even swear to that.

Ray

You get maybe 50 fps more and have to pay for the barrel to be pulled, threads set back, rechambered and the caliber to be marked. Then it won't fit the stock anylonger either.

I have one as I fell for the baloney that its better.

On the other hand it looks cool and is clean fun. Don't forget the $60 die set.

Thanks for the input fellas. Basically I was waiting for a 6mm barrel that doesn't look like its going to arrive. Have some other calibre barrels in stock .30 7mm and 6.5 and am weighing up the options. Action is Sako L 695 long action so could accomodate most non-mag rounds. Options may be 30-06 AI (asmentioned) 6.5-06 AI or something in the 7s. What would you guys go for as you have plenty of wildcat exeperience by the looks of things?

All the best

Z

Talk about opening a can of worms now. Ask for opinions and you will get 1000s of them.

My first wildcat was a 7mm. I took a 280rem to 280AI then to a 7mmjrs. Moves the sholder forward. Then took it to a 40deg .458 shoulder with .28" neck. Only to find out several years later about the Gibbs wildcats. I've used my case from .257-.416. I had my biggest gains in the 7mm and 6.5 never did a .308. Of my wildcats if I had to narrow it down to 2 it would be the 280 & .338.

In your case of those three choices 7mm then 6.5 and last .308. If you are going to fool with non factory why not go all the way? The selling point of the AI is able to use factory in an emergency. I've hunted for over 30 years and never lost my ammo.

Nothing at all wrong with the factory 280rem, or a straight 6.5-06. But if it were me going to the trouble of fireforming I'd look to the 7mmGibbs, 6.5Gibbs or the Hawkes or AHR. Dies will cost you extra but you can get by for a long time with a neck sizer and seater.


Note: these velocities are from a 26". My 280 is a 23" and my 6.5 a 24" adjusting for barrel I get real close to these velocities with my wildcat. My case is about 2grs more net capacity.

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quote:

Originally posted by zaitsev:
Thanks for the input fellas. Basically I was waiting for a 6mm barrel that doesn't look like its going to arrive. Have some other calibre barrels in stock .30 7mm and 6.5 and am weighing up the options. Action is Sako L 695 long action so could accomodate most non-mag rounds. Options may be 30-06 AI (asmentioned) 6.5-06 AI or something in the 7s. What would you guys go for as you have plenty of wildcat exeperience by the looks of things?

All the best

Z

I would stay as far as I could get from the Gibbs wildcats mentioned above. They will drive you nuts making brass.

The best long action rounds (3.336") with a standard bolt face are the 30-06 Springfield and the 270 Winchester. These are proven cartridges and the 30-06 is available worldwide.

If you must have some unusual cartridge the 280 AI may be or is now SAMMI listed. Nosler is making brass for it.

Any of the properly headspaced rimless not belted fireformed rounds are not that hard to live with. Everybody should have a chance at one. As I said they are no real improvement but clean fun.

quote:

I would stay as far as I could get from the Gibbs wildcats mentioned above. They will drive you nuts making brass.

Hmm run the brass over an expander. Size to form a shoulder load and fire. Since I run my new brass through the sizer only the expander step is in addition to loading and firing.

As I stated If it were me I wouldn't do any wildcat or AI. Even though I have more wildcats than standard in the safe. The real gain is very small. But if "I" was going to the trouble I would go all the way. But that is me. The Nosler brass in 280AI will save you a step and does have the correct headstamp. And if you really want an AI that is by far the simplist and the 280AI is a very good round.

quote:

P.O. hisself didn't think much of the cartridge and didn't recommend it

It's true that Ackley didn't recommend several of the "improved" cartridges. The 270 AI and 25-06 AI are examples. The 30-06 AI was one of the recommended improved cartridges. It's discussed at length in Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders.

The '06 AI gets ~70 fps more than the std 06, given all other things being equal, including max PSI. Quick Load will confirm this observation. It's a mild improvement only, but none-the-less an improvement. It's also a ballistic twin to the 280 AI. Of the two, I favor the '06 AI slightly, because of greater bullet selection and somewhat longer barrel life.

I know that you didn't mention having a 338 barrel, but I would recommend a 338-06.

quote:

Originally posted by DobleTroble:

quote:

P.O. hisself didn't think much of the cartridge and didn't recommend it

It's true that Ackley didn't recommend several of the "improved" cartridges. The 270 AI and 25-06 AI are examples. The 30-06 AI was one of the recommended improved cartridges. It's discussed at length in Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders.

I read an article from the late 50's about the 30-06AI they tried to get it to equal 300H&H velocity Seems some shooter got it other didn't and I think some may still feel it's not the best of Ackley rounds.

I just had a 280AI build and I get 7 Gibbs velocity and my loading data was from Nosler reloading manual. Now that Nosler is making 280AI brass you can neck that up to 30cal down to 270 or 6.5 and save on fire forming.

I'm not much into John Barsness thinking of equal pressure when comparing the Ackley to the parent case. For shooters that don't like a the Ackley or any type wildcat they quote Barsness as a reason not to build one. I fully understand the equal pressure thing but just disagree with it when building an Ackley as there is enough reloading data not only from Nosler manual or Sierra that you can safey load above the parent case. Nosler is building a 280AI rifle along with the Ackley (8) chambered rifles from Cooper. Jarrett Rifles also build a 280AI and sells loaded ammo for that caliber.

Today you have better barrels,bullets and powder to work with and if I was going to build a 30-06AI I'd do it with a Broughton 5c or Obermeyer 1/11 twist barrel.

I have afew Ackley chamber rifles and I've been very happy with them. Well good luck

quote:

Originally posted by DobleTroble:

quote:

P.O. hisself didn't think much of the cartridge and didn't recommend it

It's true that Ackley didn't recommend several of the "improved" cartridges. The 270 AI and 25-06 AI are examples. The 30-06 AI was one of the recommended improved cartridges. It's discussed at length in Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders.

DT

You are absolutely right and I was embarrassingly wrong. Just last week I was loading some ammo for my 06 AI and I pulled out an old magazine article that had some load data for V V N560 powder that I wanted to try. The article mentioned Ackley's name in several places and also had comments about how the Improved cartridge really didn't do much more than the standard 06. My brain put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5. Hence my comment. Thanks for correcting me.

Ray

The short form is that if you stay with the heavy bullets you get the most benefit. As to accuracy, depends on more than the cartridge case... Velocities for mine with a 180 Nosler BT have been as high as 2995 ft/sec's, but best accuracy is at 2850 ft/sec's. I like the rifle mainly because all my family and friends shoot various .300's! My rifle will consistantly shoot under 1 MOA at range for 5 shot groups, so it's a winner.

Nosler is, or already has, chambered there custom rifles in 280AI. I think they are going through the formalities with SAAMI to make it legit. They already make the correct AI brass. Give them a call and maybe they will forward you a chamber print.

Thanks for all this. The 280 AI was one that I hadn't really considered but it seems to be quite popular and allegedly quite a performer too. The 280 certainly isn't a popular cartridge over in the uk but in france and germany it seems to be very popular, particularly in remington semi autos and slides. They certainly like it for Wild boar. I remember now that load data for it can also be used for the 7x64 Brenneke which again is a popular cartridge in Europe.
SO the 30-06 would be ultimately more flexible in the choice of bullets and loadings but the 280 would be a little flatter shooting over long range? Both adequate for anything thin skinned with the proper bullets and both capable of very good accuracy considering this will be a custom job with fine components.

Any views?

Thanks

Z

my view

You did mention fine components.

Hmmm maybe I should think before writing in future!Thanks for the photos though, truly wonderful looking rifles those. You own one or make them?
My point of view:
Fine components yes. Exotica no.
Sako Action, broughton, hart, krieger or whatever barrel, custom laminate stock.
Fine for me

Regards

z

zaitsev,

I picked up a 30.06 AI in aug, a sako action with a lothar walther barrel and lam stock. it is a great piece of kit and i have been playing with pet loads, the variety of bullets is great and what ever i put through it seems to shoot well, from 110gn, 125rn,167gn and 180gn.

I am well chuffed with the performance,
there a a couple of target pics on the optics section or AR, under nightforce scopes.

my vote for a 30.06 AI

If you are going to handload for maximum velocities, while still being safe, the AI versions are a worthwhile improvement.

The factory 30-06 loadings are more in the 50 KPSI range, rather than 60.

I have one on a Montana Rifleman action, althought currently my stockmaker is taking his sweet time (it's been over a year now).

Except for the Light Magnum factory rounds, I can get more like 100 fps increased velocity with my handloads.
Since I handload anyway for accuracy, it's worthwhile for me.

I picked up the reloading dies on Ebay for about $25.

Garrett