ok, so I'm looking for a fast .30 caliber cartridge. I'd like something just like the 300 Win Mag, but with a longer neck (the same neck as the 30-06 would be ideal) and no belt. Right away, the 300 Dakota and the 30 Newton come to mind. Judging by the controversy on this board about the 30 Newton dimensions, I'm not sure I want to go there. The 300 Dakota is rare as hen's teeth. It sounds like shooting either of these would be essentially shooting a wildcat, so why not get exactly what I want starting from a common case?

I don't want a 'short mag' of any kind. The WSM/WSSM/RSAUM/etc don't thrill me at all. The regular 300 RUM is just too big and you need at least a 26" barrel to make it work. The new RCM cartridges are again for a short action. I'm looking strictly for a 2.5" case of standard magnum size to work well with 24" of barrel. I know I could just get a 300Mag and shoot it, but I just really don't like the belt.

So, what other options are there? A shortened 300 RUM? Something based on an improved 8x68S? Necking down the 375 Ruger and pushing the shoulder back ~.050" to make a goodly neck? There's plenty of case capacity to lose a little in making a proper neck.

I'm not looking for any more performance than the 300 Win, so it doesn't need to be a hot rod barn-burner; just a real, practical using cartridge. It doesn't matter to me if the headstamp ever matches the chambering, so starting with anything is ok. Ideally, it should be as simple as rebarreling a 7mm Mag or 300 Mag with no other alterations needed. Can anyone make suggestions as to what other things have been tried and what might be a proven way to get a beltless 300 mag?

Well since you rule out the short magnums and Rum case and 300 Dakota you are pretty much talking about a wildcat of some type. Yep take 375 case move the neck back. A wildcat. Take Jeffe's AR case neck it down still have a wildcat. Want a longer neck than the 300WMAG use a 308Norma. Don't want a neck turn it off the brass. No big deal. Still use the same dies.

For what you want you are talking a wildcat. Unless I'm missing something. Hornady will make your dies for around $150 not much more than some other exotic. Once you have your dies it is pretty much like any other std reloading.

TC,

The 30 Newton and 308 Norma are ballistic twins…so it depends upon whether you want a cartridge that will require 100% handloading or a cartridge that you can occasionally purchase loaded factory ammunition for.

For what it’s worth, prior to the Hornady producing the .375 Ruger brass, many 30 Newton owners would run 308 Norma or 300 WinMag brass through their resizing die, trim to length, and you’re ready to load to go. Fireforming the case is not required, though probably is recommended, as the belt centers the cartridge in the chamber and with after about the 2nd full load there is only a small indent around the case with the belt-body junction previously was. Now just use the .375 Ruger brass, it’s very high quality and forms perfectly.

Heck, if you want to build a rifle for what will turn out to be a wildcat catridge, you could even start with full length .404 Jeffrey brass.

Another choice would be full length 8x68 brass. Want even bigger? Use.416 Rigby brass. No belt on any of them.

Because it will be a wildcat, you are not restricted as to which brass you start with, as long as you can afford the components and the action work to get it to feed.

With a Wby Mk.V action you possibly won't have too much in the way of action work anyway if you start with the Rigby brass.

Then make it as short or long as you want. Ditto the neck area.

Or, you could just go with a .30-.378 Wby cartridge shortened a bit to suit your taste. You'd have a belted case, but you could get brass fairly easily from Wbys.

TC,

I wouldn’t be concerned about the controversy over the 30 Newton other than to assure that your gunsmith is using the correctly dimensioned reamer. The 30 Newton is a modern design high performance US cartridge that dates from the 1913/1914 era; definitely has some history to it. My Newton cartridge and rifle specialist buddy has confirmed for me that Dave Kiff at PT&G has the proper Newton chamber schematics and can provide the correct reamers and gauges for any of the Newton cartridges should you want to go that way. Or you can go with Harry McGowen, the original McGowen barrel maker, as his shop in St. Anne, IL still performs a wide range of gunsmithing work and my buddy also been assured me that Harry McGowen he has the correct dimensioned Newton reamers (or knows from whom to borrow them) to accomplish the barrel and chambering work. Here’s a link to the Harry McGowen Gunsmithing website:
http://www.mcgowengunsmithing.com/

Regarding the 300 Dakota, both correctly headstamped brass and loaded cartridges are available from their website. I like the Dakota line of cartridges as the 7mm, 300, 330, 375, and 404 Dakotas can be viewed as improved modern updates of the 333 Jeffery cartridge while the 416 and 450 Dakotas can be viewed as improved modern updates of the 404 Jeffery cartridge. There’s no reason not to go with the 300 Dakota if that’s your choice. Here’s a link to the Dakota website online store:
http://dakotaarms.com/quikstore.html

.30-338 or .308 Norma

If I were you , I'd do the 30-375 Ruger cartridge. It will give you a little more power than the 300WM and it meets your goals.

Despite the belt, the 308 Norma is about as good as you'll find........

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Despite the belt, the 308 Norma is about as good as you'll find........

I have not the knowledge of those that have posted before me, but I like the Norma...