I have a bit of experience with the centerfire rifles but very little with air rifles.....

I do have an RWS .177 rifle that shoots fairly good with a single stroke of the barrel it'll send a pellet 1,000 FPS and will cause the rabbit supply to diminish quickly.....

That said, I'd be interested in learning about other air rifles.....and in a larger caliber.....I'm guessing .20 caliber would suit me fine. I just looked at the Airforce Talon SS website and....well....I want it to look like a rifle. They have some great features like a 3,000 PSI tank and adjustable power levels.....I sure like them but prefer iron sights and it has to bear some semblance to a rifle.

What's your opinions?

BTW, as a kid we had a pump-up .22 cal....it killed a lot of barn pigeons but stroking that thing 10 times to shoot once got very old and very fast. I think it was a Benjamin...and shot quite accurately...

I just bought a Remington (Crosman) NPPS in .22 caliber.This one has the Marine Corps Desert Digital Camo pattern. No Sights, scope only but it looks and feels like a real rifle. I have a Beeman R9 with a scope. You can get those with open sights and they too look and feel like a rifle.

This will be my next airgun and as you can see, it will have sights. I suspect it will feel like a rifle as well.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/..._-_Poplar_Stock/2171

This one, like I suspect the Airforce Talon, uses compressed air from a SCUBA tank to fill them. Which is great if you are into SCUBA. FWIW, a lot of places require you to be SCUBA certified to rent or get SCUBA tanks filled.

I'm going through the same Ramp-Up as you two. Same for a few of my buddies. We are learning as we go and absorbing as much input as we can find.

Hard to say what another person would like in an air rifle, or any rifle for that matter. I'm real interested in the "Nitro Piston" rifles and some of my buddies are real interested in the PCPs.

There is a bunch of good info on this Board.

And I found some info at the various airgun stores like Pyramid Air, Air Gun Depot, Air Gun Warehouse. Not sure how "good" this info is because some of it is Marketing Hype and some Reviews made by people that I do not know(haven't seen enough of their posts to get an impression of their actual knowledge).

There are a good many short flicks on You Tube about Air Rifles. Some are made by the folks who manufacture them and some by people who actually provide some good info. For example, if you do a Search on You Tube for Nitro Piston then turn up the volume so they are talking at a normal level, you can hear how quiet the NP is.

Air Rifles seem to be very selective about which Pellets they like - similar to a 22RimFire.

Vapodog--The .20 cal (5mm) to me is the best of both worlds between the .177 and .22. My .20 cal is a Sheridan pump up--I pump it 4 times most of the time and that is great for sparrows. The only disadvantage to this cal is that Wal Mart etc doesnt carry that size pellet and buying them at sporting good stores doubles plus the price of .22 or .177 pellets. My Sheridan has peep sight which I really like. My RWS has scope and I like that too. I dont live in an area where air rifles are real popular so I don't have benefit of seeing a lot of the different models.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
I just bought a Remington (Crosman) NPPS in .22 caliber.This one has the Marine Corps Desert Digital Camo pattern. No Sights, scope only but it looks and feels like a real rifle. I have a Beeman R9 with a scope. You can get those with open sights and they too look and feel like a rifle.

This will be my next airgun and as you can see, it will have sights. I suspect it will feel like a rifle as well.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/..._-_Poplar_Stock/2171

This one, like I suspect the Airforce Talon, uses compressed air from a SCUBA tank to fill them. Which is great if you are into SCUBA. FWIW, a lot of places require you to be SCUBA certified to rent or get SCUBA tanks filled.

I checked out the Beeman and the Remington NPPS and they are quite interesting.....thanks for the reply; I appreciate it!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
There is a bunch of good info on this Board.

Darn right there is...thanks Hot Core....PM sent

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Vapodog--The .20 cal (5mm) to me is the best of both worlds between the .177 and .22. My .20 cal is a Sheridan pump up--I pump it 4 times most of the time and that is great for sparrows. The only disadvantage to this cal is that Wal Mart etc doesnt carry that size pellet and buying them at sporting good stores doubles plus the price of .22 or .177 pellets. My Sheridan has peep sight which I really like. My RWS has scope and I like that too. I dont live in an area where air rifles are real popular so I don't have benefit of seeing a lot of the different models.

Carpetman.....seems there aren't a lot of .20 cals out there.....I just visited Midsouth and found only one....so I went to Midway and there was precious few there as well.....

I think .22 cal may be my best bet now as there are more to choose from in that caliber. IMO I think the .25 cal is overkill as it's time to break out a rimfire if we need something like that.

The scope that came with my RWS is worthless....I can't even mount it....it's just a poor piece of equipmant....but the gun shoots well. I think a little more horsepower is in order.....thanks for the reply.

It's where you hit them, any caliber really, if you don't hit a really vital spot with an Airgun the prey usually buggers off. If you want a .22 then get one, obviously more guns is better.
But I'd first give the RWS a good tune up, buy a kit or send it to somebody or whatever.
.177 gives you a bit more usable range and that's quite important.
Then think about a really nice gun in .22 maybe a Pre Charged I sorted out a new BSA for a friend today. A .22 Super 10, I don't usually recommended them, they are quite complicated and can be troublesome to get working right but a good one is awesome. Even in a bit of a wind it got 10 shots in 1" at 60y, once it's run in, with perfect pellets and indoors that will be a one hole group.

vapodog--what is the reason for open sights vs scope preference? Do you include peep sights in the open sight option? Me being an older geezer prefer scopes or peeps.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
vapodog--what is the reason for open sights vs scope preference? Do you include peep sights in the open sight option? Me being an older geezer prefer scopes or peeps.

My 17 cal RWS came with a scope but it was so poor I couldn't use it. I learned to shoot the irons and as long as it's a short range gun I get along fine with it. I actually see little use for a scope on an air rifle that shoots 50'....but it's starting to look like some of these things actually are 50 yard guns!.....Maybe I should rethink this.....

vapodog--Ive posted this so many times that many are sick of it. Cry, and whatever else you do and bite down and buy a Leupold compact 3x-9x with EFR for your air rifle. But on the brighter side most likely years down the road you can sell it for more than you paid.

i just can't bring myself to pay more for a scope than i pay for a rifle, since i never plan to sell it down the road. on a short range gun like an air rifle with little or no recoil, the perfectly clear optics on my 3 centerpoints( all less than $100) are MORE than enough. besides who goes air gunning in bad weather and bangs away at 200 yd targets? at 100 yds, the optics are clear enough at 16x to not need a spotting scope to check group placement.that's all i need and the $300 i save pays for another gun!

What's the opinions on this?....
Gamo 1300 FPS

Is this for real....does it shoot accurately.....darn thing is almost like a .22 LR!!!

first of all, that velocity is misleading. it was obtained with alloy( VERY light weight)pellets. that would be ok except they are too light. in .22 caliber, you are talking 9-10 grains and they get pushed around badly by the wind. secondly, if you use the alloy pellets( and possibly if you use heavier but more stable lead pellets), your rounds are going supersonic- about 1100fps- and you get get more noise. maybe not a problem but it negates the positive effect of the shrouded barrel. also at that velocity you MUST have a spring that requires a tremendous cocking effort. my Benjamin NP XL has somewhat lower velocity claims and still requires a 45 plus lb cocking effort. thirdly is the price- for a lot less money, you can get a Benji NP XL with scope, sling etc.. with the price they want plus the noise it will make( even assuming their velocity claim, which i HIGHLY doubt), you must as well go with a rimfire. lead pellets knock about 150-200fps off claimed velocity but even assuming 1100fps, you still have a supersonic round.

Hey Vapo, I have no experience with that air rifle, except for "maybe" the Trigger. The guys on here, including JDollar, convinced me to get a GRT-III Trigger for my Crosman from "Charlie Da Tuna" and it made all the difference in the world.

Apparently a lot of the Gamo, Crosman, Benjamin and Remington Triggers share a similar design.

So, if you go that route, and if the Trigger needs serious improvement, the GRT-III will fix it for about $30-$32.

By the way, the Springers seem to be cursed with a "Rotational Torque" which is not found in the PCPs, Pump-Ups, nor the Nitro Piston firearms. Kind of hard to describe until you feel it. It is somewhat similar to the way a very light centerfire rifle will begin to rotate opposite the Bore Twist when using a Heavy Bullet and a very "light grip".

I see a hand pump for the 3,000 PSI cylinders (I believe this is what we are calling PCP or pre charged Pneumatic)....about $150 more or less.....does this actually work well?....how long does it take.....and do we have a lot of heavy work to get-er-done?

The hand pump is hard work.
You could use it for light duty, like if you only did 20 shots a day, or carry one Just Incase. Or had a small capacity gun.
But refilling a Talon bottle is 70 or so pumps, you get one bar a pump roughly.
You'd soon say screw that.

Also cause a lot of moisture, the filter is not very effective.

A light springer can eat scopes that are fine on a Centerfire.
With the PCPs You need a fair scope as you are (or should be ) shooting at a VERY small target.
Even a reticule that's too fat is a problem, at 35y an old WTC covers up your whole group.

There is a Video on You Tube where a guy is showing how the Hand Pump works.

He built a Railing out from a building at a height where he could place a 3"x3"(maybe) under the Railing and have the Board extend across the Handle of the Pump. He did this to gain Leverage to push the Pump Handle down.

I'd recommend highly that a person watch that Video prior to committing to a Hand Pump for reaching 3000psi.

On the other hand, it would be good exercise!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
There is a Video on You Tube where a guy is showing how the Hand Pump works.

He built a Railing out from a building at a height where he could place a 3"x3"(maybe) under the Railing and have the Board extend across the Handle of the Pump. He did this to gain Leverage to push the Pump Handle down.

I'd recommend highly that a person watch that Video prior to committing to a Hand Pump for reaching 3000psi.

On the other hand, it would be good exercise!

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:
The hand pump is hard work.
refilling a Talon bottle is 70 or so pumps,
You'd soon say screw that.

Thanks for the advice.....screw that!!!!!

There's no SCUBA stuff anywhere near here.....what's my alternative if I want a PCP gun?

Nitrogen from a welding supply place?

Fire Station with friendly firemen (send a pretty girl) they have compressors for the air tanks.

A Doctor I know takes his gun tank and scuba tanks into the hospital, in the lower floor is a FULL machine shop and testing labs.

This "Shoebox" pump ... or build a pump, not TOO hard.
There was a motorized pump made out of one "stirrup" or hand pump, but it wasn't much good.
They burned out and fell to bits not tough enough.
You need 2 stage at least, 3 even better.

Industrial salvage, auctions.
A friend got a portable 232 bar compressor and a nice 28" lathe for $600 the recession is good for something.

Talon guns don't rust SO bad, your not so worried about moisture.
Guns with steel air tubes and little springs and shit in them are vulnerable to any rust
as you know Rust Never Sleeps.
Any PCP should be stripped once a year and checked, 200 bar air pressure needs to be respected.

If you only fill gun bottles you only need that pressure, no headroom needed like for a divers tank, for that you want 300bar.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I see a hand pump for the 3,000 PSI cylinders (I believe this is what we are calling PCP or pre charged Pneumatic)....about $150 more or less.....does this actually work well?....how long does it take.....and do we have a lot of heavy work to get-er-done?

the $150 pumps are the Benjamin and Airforce brands- basically junk. a quick check on any airgun forum shows a multitude of complaints. they never lasT very long and you are constantly having to rebuild them. Hill pumps are the only ones with a proven track record and they are EXPENSIVE!. they will cost almost TWICE what a scuba tank cost,and still require a LOT of work. pump 5 minutes, let it cool down, pump 5 minutes, ad infinitum. takes a LONG time to fill a 3000psi bottle if it is bigger than 200cc. if you have no way to get a scuba tank filled, stick with a magnum springer- specifically a Benji NP XL. I have both( Talon SS and NP XL). Talon is a better gun but i can fill it at home. if not for that capability, i would stick with the NP XL.

He's already got a fair springer.

RWS is probably better than a Benjamin if he gets another spring or ram in .22 then best to go upmarket a bit and be happier.
But PCP is the way, there must be an easy way to get it sorted if you have no easy air supply.

i have an RWS 36 in .177 and a Benji NP XL in .22- no comparison in terms of power and the XL IS QUIETER. it is a better gun- and the RWS is an older one made in Germany. for anything bigger than a starling, go with a .22 unless your shots are all close range or you KNOW you can shoot them in the head. a chest shot with a .177 is just not going to do the damage that a .22 will do.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i have a Benji NP XL in .22-

this one?

yep, that's it. also comes with a sling- which is actually quite handy because with a scope, the rig weighs over 10 lbs. if you buy one clean the barrel well before you ever shoot it- full of machine oil and grease. and by all means replace the trigger with a GTR111( ABOUT $30 AND WELL WORTH IT- the factory trigger is awful and the GRT111 takes about 10 minutes to drop in)

Seems there's two models....one with a bull barrel and a sporter which is 6 2/3 pounds.....and I'd opt for the lighter one!

Reviews at Midway agree with the trigger issue....thanks for the tip on the upgrade trigger.

Sure like the idea of PCP but the barrel cocking isn't a big negative to me....it seems to have a lot of power as is!

the sporter model must be new. when i bought mine 5 months ago, the bull barrel model was the only one. i wonder, though, if the sporter has any sort of sound suppression. doubt it. then again if noise level isn't important, go with the lighter rifle if ballistics are equal. mine prints 14.3 gr. CP pellets in a 1 to 1 1/4 inch group at approx. 850-60fps at 50 yds. i would not get the .177 if i was going to do much hunting.

Is accuracy like a rim fire.....buy lots of ammo and try them...or can one recommend a "best" pellet for accuracy and maybe another for hunting.

I'm putting up a Martin hotel near my house and want to "harass" the sparrows etc trying to use the hotel....

Range to be about 35 yards and the target is small.....dead sparrows are good sparrows.....

Probably polish off a squirrel or two and a few raggits.....maybe even a wild turkey....they run all over the place here. (quiet is good! )

maybe i am just lucky but Crossman Premier domes and hollow points(14.3 gr.) both shoot equally well in both my .22's. they are cheap, accurate and have great velocity( relatively light weight). i have never bothered trying others- if it ain't broke i won't try to fix it.

quote:

Crossman Premier domes and hollow points(14.3 gr.)

You can look down in the Crosman Storm XT thread and see the groups (and patterns ) I recently made at 10yds.

I agree with the Crosman Premier Hollow Points that JDollar mentioned being accurate in my air rifle as well. I also seem to be having excellent accuracy with the more expensive Gamo Rockets.

My buddy Ralph is seeing the same thing I am in his rifle. Ralph discovered that the Gamo Rockets were shooting so well and sent me some to try.

I find it very strange that the Wad Cutters don't shoot well for either Ralph or me. You would think that since the air rifle teams use Wad Cutters(or maybe they don't ) that they would shoot as good as, or better than most others - HA!

The Crosman Premier Hollow Points are $6.97/500 at Wal-Mart.

10 meter target guns are LOW power 6 fpe.
Totally different animal

plus to get a really accurate score, they must cut a hole with a sharp edge. wadcutters do this- and not much else beyond 10 meters.

Thanks for the info. I had no idea about the speed on the Match air rifles. And I gotya about needing a "clean cut" hole for scoring.

I'll go out on a short limb and offer that neither Ralph, nor I present a serious threat to any of the Match shooters with our Storm XTs.

quote:

I had no idea about the speed on the Match air rifles.

That's what they make chronographs for.....so you know when to quit pumping up your gun!.....

vapodog--Ive had martin houses since back in the early 80's---been a real source of pleasue and yes shot many a sparrow and starling and trapped a bunch of sparrows as well. Good luck with your house--sometimes you wont get any martins the first year.

When I bought my RWS the guy included some match grade RWS pellets. They didnt work worth a darn--they were too light--match pistol pellets. I got Crosman Premiers and problem solved---they shoot better than any others I tried and Wal Mart carried them at a cheaper price than any of the others.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
vapodog--Ive had martin houses since back in the early 80's---been a real source of pleasue and yes shot many a sparrow and starling and trapped a bunch of sparrows as well. Good luck with your house--sometimes you wont get any martins the first year.