OK I give up. I'm being over run by pests. OK not over run but enough I want to be able to hit them.

I have an old $75 Crosman .17 not sure of the model. It is accurate enough to make the hit. IF the pest will sit still long enough for more than one shot. I know I switched pellets and it went from OK usually to poor. Stupid me can't remember the brand of pellet that was OK.

So I'm thinking about putting something on my Christmas list.

so with a $250 budget what would you buy? I'm not interested in a multipump.

RWS 34

for that budget, would it also have a scope or is that additional $?? if that is the scoped total, good luck on accuracy beyond 25 yards. a scoped RWS 34 is a good choice but might exceed a $250 budget

The $250 is simply our unofficial limit for Christmas gifts. If I need to add a scope so be it.

Doing some searching and reading reviews and the 34 looks like a good deal.


Hmmm doing more reading. I might need to buy the rifle now so the wife can buy me a new scope for Christmas.

OK after doing a lot of reading and watching youtube I've decided on getting an RWS 34. Now which one? It will be used for small pest in the yard. While we have 1.5acres we still have neighbors so quiet is better. Advantage or disadvantage of the compact? .177 has always been big enough if my old rifle and I could hit the target.

Open sights or simply commit to scope. I'm 64 and eyes are going. I can line up at 25yds but it is getting harder. The old Crosman scope I tried to use on the old rifle was a joke.

I did decide to not wait for Santa.

check this link for the various versions of the 34. all actions are the exact same, as is power level. it is more a question of wood or synthetic stock,scoped or not, and overall size. go to the left scrolling menu and drop down to RWS. BTW, these folks run the best mail order business in air rifles that i have found. i have spent over $10,000 with them and no complaints...

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com

Ramrod--Why buy a good rifle and put a worthless scope on it? Besides a good scope, you'll need a good adjustable mount. Something about RWS you wont have enough adjustment in the scope. A Leupold 3x-9x compact with EFR (extended focus range) is THE ticket. You need the EFR as normal scopes for firearms are used for longer than air gun ranges and don't focus at air gun range. They cost a little more than the rifle, but the good news you can sell it years later for more than you paid--not planning on selling it---enjoy the heck out of it--beats the frustrations of a cheaper scope. They are built for the double whammy recoil of a springer that will wreck most scopes.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Ramrod--Why buy a good rifle and put a worthless scope on it? Besides a good scope, you'll need a good adjustable mount. Something about RWS you wont have enough adjustment in the scope. A Leupold 3x-9x compact with EFR (extended focus range) is THE ticket. You need the EFR as normal scopes for firearms are used for longer than air gun ranges and don't focus at air gun range. They cost a little more than the rifle, but the good news you can sell it years later for more than you paid--not planning on selling it---enjoy the heck out of it--beats the frustrations of a cheaper scope. They are built for the double whammy recoil of a springer that will wreck most scopes.

+1. I have just that combo and it's accounted for more varmints than I can possibly remember.

OK Carpet and mike. The rifle length barrel or the compact?

I understand a quality scope. It will just need to wait until I know how much of the $20000+ of hail damage the insurance picks up. Need to use sweat equity for my deductible so I don't impact my play $$

Mine is the old school 19 incher. The 15 incher may be just as good; I don't know.

Around 850 fps is what I get, using standard .177 caliber RWS Meisterkugeln pellets.

Ramrod--I don't know the answer on barrel length so I'll completely sidestep your question. You have a choice of .177 or .22. I don't know the answer there. The sad part is that .20 cal 5mm is not an option, then it would be a no brainer.

in general, the shorter the barrel the lower the power level. that said, only accuracy matters and that varies from rifle to rifle and pellet to pellet. pick one and then test multiple pellets for accuracy. Straight Shooters sells pellet tester packs that contain 8-10 different pellets of varying weights and makes( about 20 of each). it saves buying a 500 round tin then finding out the rifle hates it..

i have the rws mod 34 in .17 caliber and it is a great air rifle...... be sure to get a scope RATED FOR AIR RIFLES.... a rws will shake a regular rifle scope apart in short order........ it has to do with all the forward-reverse-forward recoil of the rifle................

I've figured out of the last few days my hold SUCKS. Had a friend lend me his 34 compact. I could hit things hardly any better than with my old Crosman. After probably 100rds I finally got to the point I could barely hold the rifle let it do it's thing and get 3 of 5 shoots in the 1/2" range at about 20 yds. I did find the pellets I had been using in my Crosman and using my better hold I could get some 1.25" groups with the old rifle. I did remount the scope I guess my eyes just won't handle open sights any more. Going to spend some $$ of a better scope first it will come in handy with the old rifle or new purchase.

My friend ordered a Marauder so I'm going to see how he likes it. If I can't get my hold more consistent a 34 would probably be a waste. I might have to consider a PCP.

I also picked up some cci low velocity to see how load they are and if my rifle will group them.

what you discovered by accident is the artillery hold and it is the only way to hold a magnum springer and achieve any sort of accuracy. the tighter you grip a springer, the worse it shoots...a decent 20 yards group with a springer should not be bigger than 1". if it is, experiment with different pellets, assuming hold is consistent and scope is tight.

quote:

what you discovered by accident is the artillery hold and it is the only way to hold a magnum springer and achieve any sort of accuracy

What I really found was a major difference between KNOWING I needed to use the artillery hold and actually USING an artillery hold.

I THOUGHT I was holding the rifle very light. Compared to a center fire hunting rifle I'm sure I was. But, not near light enough. I THINK I was still pulling the butt in tight from years of larger caliber shooting. I was light on the forearm but still heavy on the rear.

So as they say practice practice practice.

In reading a number of reviews on my Crosman ($75 rifle including factory scope)getting consistant groups under 1" was not easy. Heck it doesn't help the trigger pull is 7-8# with about 1/4" of creep.
For what I'm shooting if I can get close to 1" at 20yd consistently it should be plenty accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
what you discovered by accident is the artillery hold and it is the only way to hold a magnum springer and achieve any sort of accuracy. the tighter you grip a springer, the worse it shoots...a decent 20 yards group with a springer should not be bigger than 1". if it is, experiment with different pellets, assuming hold is consistent and scope is tight.

i got this tip from the rws catalog that came with my rifle..... to get accuracy from a magnum spinger it must be held loosely and let it jump around a bit when the trigger is pulled.... it takes a little practice but i got so i could shoot a .20" 5 shot group from about 23 ft from the trap...........

DEMOCRAT OR AMERICAN..... CHOOSE WISELY.............................

quote:

let it jump around a bit when the trigger is pulled

That is an understatement.

Up until a couple years ago I had been using an old pump up Crosman that had been my sons. So it was an antique kind of like me. So I bought the new springer Crosman with scope new from a member here.

Since the whole package was $75 the 4x scope isn't much. I mounted the scope and couldn't get it to group at all. Took it off and went open sights. A friend I hunted with gave me the big lecture on artillery hold. I read several articles and THOUGHT I was doing it right. NOPE. Looking back at when I first used the scope I know seeing the cross hairs jump 4" sideways made me hold tighter and groups got worse.

I also don't think I believed different pellets would make that much difference. Heck a .177 is a .177 Right WRONG!! While using Crosman Premier Hollowpoints I can get in the 1.25" range the other I had bought later (can't remember the name and lost the tag looking online since it has a clear lid might be Gamo)open up into the 3-4" range.

All of this is kind of a humbling experience. I used to get on my son years ago when he would try and bypass practice by buying a more expensive product. You know a $200 RV car would make him better than a $100 without taking the time to practice. I couldn't get the Crosman to shoot so I blamed it and was going to throw $$ at it.

So for now I'll stick with the Crosman and learn to shoot it to its potential. Will add a better scope because that 4x32 Crosman scope needs some help. Then buy one of the 25-30 type sample packs and fine tune. Then if that new level of accuracy leaves me short it will be time to readdress the new rifle. I also have a RWS34 on several month loan so I can also see if it is a rifle issue or an old FART that can't learn to shoot a springer.

Sorry for being long winded. Thanks for all your guys help.

my various .22 PCP air rifles all shoot ragged 1 hole groups at 25 yards and under 1/2'@ 50 yards- WITH THEIR PREFERRED PELLET.load them with something else and groups will often double or worse. and Gamo pellets( especially the light alloy ones) are always the worse. not even worth considering....also, as an FYI , hollow points and pointed pellets are not as accurate as domed pellets at ranges beyond 10 meters

Well you know what they say about practice. So over the last couple of days I've shot probably 200 practice shots. Working on my hold.

So last night at dark a 20 yd headshot and this morning a touch over 25yd again a side headshot. Can't remember the last time I was 2 for 2. More practice.

jdollar
what pcp. My friend is going with the Air Arms S510. To rich for me

I bought the cheapest RWS 34 about a decade ago. Wood stock, no rubber or steel buttplate, just a grooved curve cut into wood.

Something that surprised me was how difficult it was to get the scope and scope mounts to stop moving. And then, even though the scope is supposed to be an air gun scope (very cheap scope) I am never sure if the thing is holding zero. I am of the opinion that air gun recoil is so hard that it knocks the scope internals all around.

It is also easy to bend the barrel of a RWS cocking the action. Be smooth, don’t be abrupt on cocking, or you will bend the barrel. You can tell because your zero just went south. You can adjust for elevation on the scope, but eventually, I had to rebend the barrel in the other direction.

I have experimented with pellets. I like RWS Superpoint. http://rws-munition.de/en/hunt...llets.html#!21/253/0 After enough experimentation on squirrels with flat point and hollow point, I have decided that I want penetration through and through. Two good holes for blood to drain is better than one entrance wound. I have been unable to tell any difference in “stopping” power with a poor shot between any of the pellets, and a good shot, with any pellet type, can’t tell any difference between levels of dead.

This year I decided on a RWS Magnum 460. It is as loud as a rimfire rifle. I can’t tell any real difference in wounds, except the exit wound on the 460 seems to be a little bloodier. A good shot kills the squirrel instantly, a poor shot, takes a little longer, I don’t see any real difference between the killing power of the 460 versus the 34. I am not barrel cocking anymore but still having issues with scope zero. It is also harder to reload as the port is hard to get around.

Forever , since I was about 12 years old, I have had some kind of Sheridan .177 pump.

I looked at the RWS above and I also saw the AirForce ones that apparently are precharged.

I am sure there are reams of information and discussion - but what you guys recommend between those 2. Reading the posts above I am not so sure about the springers all of a sudden.

Thanks.

springers require that they be held in a specific manner to be accurate( the "artillery" hold). there is NO comparison between a PCP and a springer. springers require special bi-recoil resistant scopes and special mounts, especially on break barrels. a magnum break barrel will beat a cheap scope to death in 100 shots( or less) with dislocation of the reticle.

TexKD---If you had a Sheridan it was not .177, it was 5mm/.20cal. If you used .177 pellets I bet your power and accuracy were zilch. Most likely you were using Sheridan pellets which are 5mm .20cal. That is my favorite air rifle cal (and for that reason I think I'd like a Ruger .204 center fire rifle.) Those old Sheridans hard to beat and take a licking and keep on ticking more so than a Timex. I have Williams receiver sight (peep sight) on mine and it's about as accurate as my scope sighted RWS.

ranrod, the latest American Rifleman has an article on the Gamo Buckmasters Squirrel Terminator. $220 and comes with a Gamo 4X scope. Right up your street!
Peter.

Thanks Peter I'll take a look.

After SERIOUS practice and improving my hold I'm hitting around 80% out to 30yds. Not perfect but MUCH better than I was.