Anybody tried one yet?

from the tests and owner comments i have read online, sounds like a great idea. i plan on ordering the Benjamin version in the next few days in .22 cal. i have never been satisfied with the accuracy of my RWS 36 IN .177.

Jerry,

Please let us know when you do and what you think. I have really been wondering about one in the .22 also.

Jerry

p.s. I think I got my cancer bullet all dodged now too.

We call 'em "Gas Rams" it's like the strut on a Hatchback car.
They are OK, but not a great advance on a good spring gun.
With higher power levels the recoil is quite harsh, and cocking is hard.

It's a fair size bit of metal moving when they are fired. They are not low recoil like a Single stroke pneumatic, where you pressurize the air then open a valve to fire.

Hey Specialist, You got into the area that I was initially concerned about, which caused me to ask about them. Have you any thoughts on Warm vs. Cooler weather for their use?

The reason I ask is because of what you just mentioned about them being similar to air struts on Hatchbacks. I drove Broncos for many years and during cooler weather the air struts became progressively weaker as the temperature went down. Sure would not like a similar thing going on with an Air Rifle.

All that I've seen can be easily recharged or topped up, they don't have a lot of pressure uncocked.
But I'd check the gun you want first.
I seem to remember they are around 80 pounds, but my memory aint too good.
A cheap gas ram gun is probably better than a similar spring gun, but I wouldn't recommend anyone buy one of the expensive hi-power ones, like the "Theoben Evolution"

Thank you!
-----

Hey JDollar, Yes indeed, I'd appreciate any input you can give us on the one you get too.

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:
All that I've seen can be easily recharged or topped up, they don't have a lot of pressure uncocked.
But I'd check the gun you want first.
I seem to remember they are around 80 pounds, but my memory aint too good.
A cheap gas ram gun is probably better than a similar spring gun, but I wouldn't recommend anyone buy one of the expensive hi-power ones, like the "Theoben Evolution"

i think you have these rifles confused with PCP ones. they have a single cocking stoke of about 38 lbs( same as my RWS) but tests posted on line show them to be be considerably quieter and generally with less recoil. for sure they can't be topped up or recharged but they can be left cocked for hours with no power loss- no spring is left compressed. best price i have found is at MidwayUSA but they are backordered. the Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100 is the higher powered version of the standard nitro piston Trail NP. more cocking effort but about almost 200ft/sec more velocity in .22 cal. the individual reviews i have read online have all been VERY positive. amazingly even the scope that comes with the rifle has been highly praised.

No, I'm not confusing anything.

I was talking about the at rest pressure in the ram, not cocking effort.
Funny how I've managed to re-gas quite a few Ram guns.
Maybe that's not possible with these new cheap models, but I'd be surprised if that is the case.

These good reviews are mostly written by kids with their first decent gun, good luck to them, but hardly reliable info.

You can leave a ram cocked for as long as the seals will hold pressure, sometimes that is not too long.
Your using compressed gas in place of a spring, if the seals fail the guns dead, the pressure is gone. I've yet to see a spring just disappear.
I've even shot a comp with a broken spring in the gun, didn't win but came in the top quarter.

At the same velocity with the same weight pellet there is not much difference in recoil.
But the hi-power ram guns 20+ fpe have a very sharp and quite nasty recoil. There is not much you can do to improve it. Unlike a springer with lost of scope for tuning.
When you want to get to that level of performance, buy a Pre-Charged.

A few years back here, the rams were quite a fashion item, but they have lost a lot of favor, mostly due to reliability issues, and piss poor customer service from one maker in particular.
When you pay over $1200 for an airgun and it's a POS and you can't even get the factory on the phone the novelty wears off REAL QUICK.

well Crossman/Benjamin has been around for 60+ years so i don't think customer service has hurt them too much. a large number of online reviews were written by guys in their 50-60's with a long history of airgunning- they loved them. at $240 for the top of the line Benjamin, i don't think you are tempting fate. since the nearest scuba shop is 30+ miles and i don't want to spend $250 for a tank and adapters to fill a PCP at home( plus i have a natural aversion to paying more for an airgun than a regular rifle), i think it is worth a try. 30 fpe (energy) is a fair amount but a bull barrel on an 8 1/2 rifle should make it tolerable. hopefully no scope cuts!!! after all 3000+ ftlbs in an 8 lb hunting rifle doesn't raise any eyebrows. how do you re-gas a gun? wouldn't it just be easier to shot it at a target and recock/reload it??

The ram should have a filler port, the preload pressure is not too high. Probably Nitrogen is best but dry divers air works fine.
I got a .22 ram gun up to 30 fpe once but it was way too hard to cock.
The Eliminators claim 27 fpe but they rarely get anywhere near that.
The nicest one I ever used was a converted BSA, but the guy who did it was a retired Aerospace engineer and pretty much remade the whole thing himself.

Airgun factory specs are like the old gas mileage claims, down hill with a tail wind.

Jerry,

Pyramid Air has a 10% coupon that came out today. The coupon code is: AirgunsMar31.

Brings the price down to $270 and includes free shipping.

They are in stock. Not sure how that shakes out with Midway being $240 plus shipping and back-ordered.

I am just about ready to press the Pyramid Air "checkout" button??????

Any idea how long Midway is backed up and what they charge for shipping?

Jerry

Hey Jerry, Which one are you getting? What made you pick it over the other models?

I am relying on jdollar for the initial research. He is a pretty thorough Dr. and seems to do good research. His shooting would be much the same as mine.

He made the initial recommendation, I looked at it, and felt like it was good advice.

Jerry--you'd better be right or warn me pretty quick if you find another that you think would be better for us.

I'm not smart enough to do the research myself--I either rely on the Drs. or the attorneys.

Its only $270 if it's rubbish send it back.
Or give to a kid, make his (or her) day.

I just got in trouble with "Mom" for giving my niece her own airgun to use when she comes round, she didn't actually say anything but gave me an evil look.

Judge, i worked last night and missed you post about the discount coupon and apparently it was only good for 1 day. so i plan on waiting until Midway has them in stock next month and will order one then( unless pyramid air offers the discount again). an interesting online review can be found at americanairgunhunter.com. the owner reviews on the pyramid air website are also informative. as to which model- the trail np looks the same as the trail np xl 1100 but the xl 1100 has a heavier cocking effort( about 38 lbs) and as a result has more power. about 100ft/sec increase. speed is 1100fps( hence the name) with alloy pellets. will let you know when i get it and what i think of it. most reviews have favored using pellets of 13-15 grains with velocities about 900-925fps and 20 yard groups of 3/4 inch- fine for something i intend to hunt with.

Jerry,

Actually that coupon code is good until April 7.

i tried to order one using the coupon but if you use it, you don't get free shipping!. total price goes back almost to per-coupon level without the free shipping, but i decided to hell with it and ordered it anyway!! should be here next week and i will post my experience in a few weeks after i wring it out. also i checked more reviews and i was wrong about the cocking effort. the NP( lower powered ) version is indeed about 38 lbs. but the NP XL 1100 is about 47 lbs.- a handful. i figure if i can draw my 65 lb compound bow and my 175 lb crossbow, i will be able to cock it. with 14.3 gr. pellets the muzzle velocity apparently runs about 900-925 fps- about 26 fpe.-with 3/4 inch groups at 20 yds.i figure angle of ground squirrel head. we will see.

I had a few minutes and Googled "Remington Nitro Piston". Found a Review by PymaridAir on You Tube that looks to be interesting(to me anyhow).

Only got to see 2+min of the 9+min Review bacause of a time constraint on my end. However, it seemed to be very quiet to me and I turned up the volume. Then he started talking and had to turn the volume back down. He did mention it was the EDIT in to correct: "quitest" air rifle he has Tested. It was a 22cal and ws only running an Average of 650fps with the Domed Diablo pellets he was using.

Also talked about the scope that came with it a bit. EDIT in to correct: It was called a Cross Point.

You all probably are already aware of all the Air Rifle flicks on You Tube. But, it was news to me about the Nitro Piston being on there.
-----

Hey JDollar, Have you received yours yet?

got it today. cleaned the barrel(and man was it dirty-heavy, black grease/oil), mounted the scope, fired 10 rounds to check noise, and adjusted the trigger. will sight it in tomorrow and report later. prelim impression- first stage trigger pull is REALLY long, then second stage is short and fairly crisp( will probably replace it anyway with a GRT-III trigger). scope seems clear and sharp. free sling is nice. overall fit and finish is good. well packaged. easy to mount scope. maybe quieter than my .177 RWS 36 but makes a "different" sound. be sure and tighten all the screws as none of them were very tight. overall, a good first impression!!

well, i sighted it in yesterday. fired 3 shots at 10 yds to be be sure i was on the paper- 1 in. group high and left. 12 shots later i was dead on at 25 yds with a 3/4 in. group. continued shooting out to 40 yds for another 50 shots just because it was so much fun. owners manual states it takes about 100 shots to achieve maximum accuracy and quietness and i did notice a definite lowering of noise level, ease of cocking and accuracy after about 75 total shots. then i decide to spend some time doing what i bought it for-hunting. the next 10 shots-2 ground squirrels, 4 starlings( 1 at 45 yds), and a lizard. not bad. the gun is definitely more accurate than i am and is VERY dependent on using an "artillery hold" technique. if you are unfamiliar with it, it is best to look it up on pyramydair.com website( check the blog by their resident tester). bottom line, you don't grip the fore end, you just lay it in your palm. after 20 more shot today, i am past the 100 shot breakend and noise level is half of the original sound. scope is great. i am now used to the trigger so i may not replace it. overall, an absolutely great hunting rifle, especially in light of the cost.P.S.- i was using Crossman Premier domed pellets- 14.3 grains. with the accuracy i am getting now(1/2 to 3/4 inch) i see now reason to experiment with others- and 500 rounds for $9 is too good to miss.

Sounds really nice. Which Model did you get?

the Benjamin Trail NP XL. same appearance as the Trail NP, but more powerful( and harder to cock). for under $300 delivered to the door for the rifle, scope, sling and 500 pellets, it is a huge bargain and a killing machine. look out ground squirrels and rabbits.

I just noticed the difference between the "XL" and the other ones a few days ago. Had no idea they made one that stout.

Also noticed a bunch of other Air Rifles are being converted from the Spring to the Crosman NP.

Does the XL really weigh over 9#?

with the scope,for sure it does. haven't weighed mine but it is a heavy combo. glad it came with a sling and swivels. shot some more today and the more i shoot it, the better i like it. i am seriously thinking about selling some of my regular rifles and getting into airgunning. as much as i dislike the idea of having to refill a PCP, i guess i may take the plunge and buy one.

If your happy with that, you'll be shocked at how much better a nice rifle is.
Good PCPs aren't cheap or low maintenance but WELL worth the expense and extra hassle.
I do still love using my little springer but it has had dozens of hours of work on it.

For mid price check Air Arms.
If you really want to go for it.
Then it's the Daystate Mk 4 or Steyr.

The Airforce Talons can be good but need trigger work and are a bit weird unless you are used to AR 15 type guns with the high sight mounts.
It's easy to get LOADS of power out of them.

Thanks jdollar! Your input has been invaluable to my thinking about all of this. I didn't realize they came with a Sling and Swivels.
-----

When I was looking around "You Tube", there was a guy showing how many Pumps it took with some kind of fancy bicycle pump to get the PCP tank up to top pressure.

Took 100 pumps, but... he also used a long (2"x2"?) board to assist with a good bit of the actual pumping. One end was under a Rail he had made, the middle of the board was across the pump and he was pushing on the far end of the board. Then relift the pump and do it again.

Also showed some guy filling one from a very tall tank like you get Oxygen in from a Welding Supply Shop. I missed what he was using as a gas. I think he was trying to "sell" the Regulator.

I'd intended to call around and ask some Dive Shops what it costs to refill a tank, but just haven't had time to do it yet.

All of this makes the Nitro Piston look better and BETTER to me all the time.

I envy you that have local store where you can go have a look see and can ask questions of someone that knows. I watched the videos and I must be missing something. The thing is precharged but still requires a fairly hefty cocking effort? Years ago my cousin had a Crosman pellet rifle that used co2 cartridge and didnt have to be cocked. (I didnt like it as each shot got weaker). I'm sure they have some sort of regulator to correct that, but still having a hefty cocking effort and having to go to dive shop or a special pump doesnt sound good to me. How many shots do you get before having to recharge? Unless thousands sounds like more trouble than worth to me. Watching the video it did appear recoil is less than a springer. My first few shots with a springer, I did find the recoil discerning, but I quickly got used to it and it doesnt bother me now. I don't see how recoil would be different than My pump up Sheridan except that it is much heavier rifle. For the gain I wouldnt trade off having to pump 4 times vs cock once. I realize with the recoil not being the double whammy of a springer that a cheaper built scope would work. For the price I really cant see the scope being much. Put it side by side with a Leupold compact 3x-9x with EFR and I suspect most would agree.( I hate inferior optics). As for increased power, that is somewhat counterproductive to what I need in an air gun. I use mine in backyard and if it had a parachute attached to the pellet when it goes beyond my fence would suit me fine. Maybe I'm not dedicated enough, when I leave my yard and going shooting, I can use my centerfires, exception is on my boat I carry an air gun for close in snakes. (Once shot a rattler trying to board my boat at point blank range---which was not my preference --with a Crosman pellet pistol that looks like a .357 mag). The lucky head shot worked or snake was going to inherit my boat.

It's called a stirrup pump.

A ram gun is only Pre Charged in the sense that the Ram has some preload The more preload the more power, more cocking effort and recoil.
Same as a spring.

Springer recoil is a bit of a Red Herring, as the pellet has left the barrel before the piston hits the end of the cylinder. The torque effect is the real problem but that can be sorted with bearings each end of the spring using various plastics, or just two greased steel washers. I have fitted 2 springs one inside the other with opposite wind, but it's not worth the hassle or expense.

FORGET trying to manually pump up any PCP rifle.
Unless you like LOTS of hard work.

Also the pump will cause too much condensation, they can have water trap filters fitted but they are not effective. The gun will rust.

You need a large 7L or bigger 300bar divers bottle.
Carbon Fiber Fireman's Air Tanks are lighter and shouldn't need safety checking so often. Depends on local regs.

You get it filled at a dive shop, or Fire Station if you have access to one.
With only Dry Divers Air ... NO gas that is explosive O2 will blow your head OFF.

Should cost around $15 to fill and you get a few thousand shots depending on the power of the gun, till it needs topping up.
Some shops do it cheap for airgunners cause the bottle it not ever empty like a divers is.

The guns run on 180 to 230 bar depending on the gun. It takes roughly 1 bar per shot, a small carbine with a short air reservoir may get 40 shots per fill, a gun with a large bottle type reservoir can do up to 500 per fill.
So when your bottle gets down to the pressure level your gun needs you get it topped up.

You can buy small 300 bar compressors but they are just a Motorized Stirrup pump and not up to the job.

You can use Nitrogen from a welders supply but it's so dry you need to do more lubrication.
With NON MINERAL lube, Oil will BLOW UP under the pressure Silicon based or NON Flammable HP grease ONLY.

CO2 is useless for accuracy, even the large CO2 tanks never give consistent pressure it's too temperature sensitive, on a cold day you'll have 1200 lbs on a hot day 2000. When you shoot the gas temp drops and this reduces pressure. The faster you shoot the more the stored gas cools and drops the pressure even more.

There is NO COMPARISON between ANY Spring or Ram gun and a good Pre Charged.
It's a totally different league.

They are more like the Sheridans, hardly any recoil, but you can have Bolt Action Repeaters, or even semi autos but the semis aren't much cop.

They are now the most accurate weapons made ...
PERIOD.

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:
If your happy with that, you'll be shocked at how much better a nice rifle is.
Good PCPs aren't cheap or low maintenance but WELL worth the expense and extra hassle.
I do still love using my little springer but it has had dozens of hours of work on it.

For mid price check Air Arms.
If you really want to go for it.
Then it's the Daystate Mk 4 or Steyr.

The Airforce Talons can be good but need trigger work and are a bit weird unless you are used to AR 15 type guns with the high sight mounts.
It's easy to get LOADS of power out of them.

i have been looking at the Airforce talon and condor. i like the talon for the noise level but the condor is capable of more power. since i live out on 40 acres where noise is not a concern( except right around the house) but distance to target may be, i am leaning toward the condor. also have been reading the reviews for the Benjamin Marauder and they are VERY favorable. decisions, decisions!! by the way, anybody in central Ca. want to buy a nice scoped Weatherby in 270 or 300 WBY??

Something like this ...



I should really upgrade the scope, it's an old Tasco , but the recital works perfectly for the trajectory zeroed at 35y on 10x 1 mildot = 5 yards exactly. It's almost too easy.

I don't know the difference in USA Airforce models well.

But they are so simple and easy to modify I wouldn't worry too much.

You just adjust, change, or drill out the "Top Hat" valve in the end of the bottle.

We change the Triggers, but I hear the new ones are much better.

Anything over 24 foot pounds will get any Airgun game out to 60y easy.
All the "Stealth" (as they are called here) guns I've seen can do 30 foot pounds, then they give 50 or so shots per fill.
But Don't tell the British Home Office as you need a license for anything over 12fp.

Unless they have a REALLY shortened barrel.
The fashion at the moment is to chop every thing, fit a crappy plastic barrel shroud and call it a "Bull Barrel" very macho.
But not too good for shooting with.

You get what you pay for, the Airforce guns are nice simple, quite good guns.
The Benjamin is rubbish, I had a quick look at one, I think it's a development of a CO2 gun.

If you need more than 40 fp you need to REALLY spend some bucks, to do it.
Like a "Ripley" 50fp £1500 I guess $3000 over there, or an "Air Ranger" LOADS of MONEY.
Or "Theoben" guns a bloody Fortune and NO back up from the factory when they go wrong (and they will)

But then with over 40 fp they have a bit of a kick and are LOUD so you may as well use a Rimfire.

Hey Specialist, Thanks for all the input.

The Tasco looks fine to me. What would a $$$HIGH$$$ scope provide you besides a lighter billfold?

For years I have heard Tascos's called Trashco. My gunsmith told me that he uses a Sweeny collimator to set scopes and usually Leupolds hold their zero throughout the power settings and about the only other one that did so were Tasco World Class scopes that were made in Japan. I do have an older World Class on a centerfire and it has been a good scope. I also heard Tasco changed hands and warranty is an issue now?????. Hot Core you ask besides a lighter wallet, what would you gain with a higher dollar scope? I put regular scope on my air rifle---to include higher dollar Leupolds and at air gun range they were out of focus. I wanted the Leupold compact 3x-9x with EFR (extended Focus Range) that would focus at air gun range, but hated to spend the $307 that they sold for then. So I watched EBAY and EVERYONE of them brought a minimum of $275 and some $290. Some of these were older and were bought for less than $275. Buy for $307 and sell for $275--that's only $32 and made the decision a no brainer. What did I gain? A very clear scope that if it develops a problem, it's Leupolds problem--not mine. Oh yes I gained a gold ring too.

The Tasco is OK as long as you don't knock it, it's about as strong as wet spaghetti.

In poor light a better scope makes a real difference. At dusk trying to spot a Rabbit or a Rat under a bush with a lower quality scope is hard.
And that's when they come out.
Long after I've given up or turned on a light,
You can still see well with a Leupold or similar.
Then with a Kahles a mate uses it's like night vision, even a bit of moon light is enough to see really well.

Most rifle scopes that haven't got Adjustable Objective Lenses can be re-parallaxed for closer focus. If you already have one you want to use on an airgun.

Here's a pic...

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6511043/m/1901030701

You should be able to do that by just Losing the outer lock ring then turning the lens, not taking the lens right out.
You can see a notch each side of the carrier to fit a tool in, but usually you can just turn it with a finger nail, or carefully push it around with a little screwdriver.
The Cross hair focus on the eye piece also affects the target focus a bit, so do them both a bit at a time checking the view till you get it where you want it.

If I need to re-fill it with Nitrogen to prevent fogging inside, I just take it to the dive shop, stick the bits in a big Ziploc bag then fill that with Nitrogen and screw the lens back in, inside the bag.
Some scopes have a hole and a bung already for that purpose.

The vast majority of how well a scope functions in poor lighting is based on the exit diameter. This is based on a ratio of the diameter of the objective lens to the power. For example a 10 power scope with 40MM objective will have a 4mm exit. Once the exit diameter matches your actual pupil size going more doesnt help any---it would a cow with their large pupil--but not a human. Your pupil gets smaller as you get older---thats why us old geezers go into a theater and are still trying to see the floor and a youngster is spotting friends across the theater. Go outside at night with a variable power scope and at it's highest setting it may be dark as you decrease power it will get brighter---to a point and then no further gain noticed. A very small portion of how effective a scope is in poor lighting is determined by lens coatings etc--but it is a small part--the vast majority is based on the factor I mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
For years I have heard Tascos's called Trashco. ... I do have an older World Class on a centerfire and it has been a good scope. ... I wanted the Leupold compact 3x-9x with EFR (extended Focus Range) that would focus at air gun range, ...

My best Hunting buddy used a World Class Tasco to Kill his first 1000 Deer with. Never had any kind of problem with 30-06 recoil, rain, fog or heat. If all scopes worked like it, there would be less stress all around.

He replaced the old M110 30-06 and Tasco with a new Savage M116 30-06 and a Leupold 3.5-10x 50mm VariX-III. The big difference between the two was the Twilight Factor was better in the Leupold. And it should have been with the price difference and being a good bit newer.

So, if you are hunting in Low Light conditions or can't get the Objective to focus up close, I sure understand.

I have one of the 3-9x EFRs and it is a nice scope. Also had a 2-7X EFR and a buddy wanted it for his Winchester M100 308Win.

When Leupold told me they had no intention of offering the Illuminated Reticle as an Upgrade to an existing scope, I quit buying them. Must have had 20 of them at one time, but they are slowly going away. They are nice scopes, but there are a lot of excellent scopes on the market today that cost much less.

Never knew they made 2x-7x in EFR. Yes many cost much less---but less than the $32 I mentioned? BTW my scope now sells for about $100 more than what I paid--I bet used I could make a profit. If there are lower cost scopes out there that could be sold for more than purchase price I'm not aware of them.

Hey CarpetMan, I think you did extremely well on the $32 difference. I've seen a few El Cheapos for less than that, but never bought one.

Huuuummm, well...., that was Wrong-O. Come to think of it, I bought a 4x Tasco(no AO) for $25 and it came with a pair of sunglasses back around 1980 at Grady's Gun Shop in Anderson, SC. Put that scope on a rifle I was planning to Trade without ever firing it and that sealed the deal.

If you want another 3-9x EFR, mine can be had at a "stolen rate". I'd even toss in a piece of paper saying, "This fine scope was once owned by Hot Core!!!"

I really prefer Illuminated Reticles now that I've got a few.
-----

Just talked to a buddy and we are both real interested in a Nitro Piston rifle. I sure appreciate all the input everyone has provided.

For an airgun to walk around with, I prefer a small gun light, and quite thick x hair, to an illuminated one.

I have a 3 to 9 Simmonds and a small 2 cell led red light, on my Little old BSA Supersport Carbine .177 break barrel, it works a treat.
You only shoot 40 or so yards anyway, and the light I find works better for me.
I tried both at once, but it was too distracting for me.
The old BSA carbine is a real nice, light little gun, 770 fps with 8.4g pellets, on a good day I can nail a 1/2" target at 35y 3 out of 5.
It's not too loud at that power.

If you want a nice Gas Ram, find an OLD BSA gun, at lest 10 years old and convert it to a Ram.
You could do that quite cheap.