quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:
Bench rest shooters fire from a "fouled" barrel. Each match has a period for "fouling shots" for a reason. A bare bore will shoot differently than one with a few shots through it. A clean bore is important - both to the life of the barrel and to accuracy but - and this is the important part - Shooting from a "fouled" bore is more consistent than firing from a bare bore. No match shooter has the time or desire to clean his gun in the middle of a match. The bench-resters that I have known lap their bores by hand before shooting them and then clean with patches and a stainless coil swab occasionally. (no bristles sticking out)

SS you are joking right? I almost fell out of my chair reading your post lol. Only an idiot would put SS down a tube of any kind.

Also my tubes (sporters) are built to the same standards just smaller od as 1k BR rifles with respect to chambering, fluting and crowning all shoot so close to the fouled condition it is not worth noting. Factory 20 dollar tubes--good luck most are so rough, ugly, tooling marks, bedded improperly which means action not relieved among other things. Bore Scope does not lie nor does a target.

If you are shooting a custom rifle you need to find a new builder.

I do not believe a formal barrel break in is necessary. I have not been given an intelligent answer why it is necessary.
Do you know why a newly chambered barrel fouls? When you understand, you fix that problem and quit wearing out a barrel with unnecessary cleaning.
Boss Hoss, this is not intended for you as you were bought up on the teachings of Speedy. He has a lot of knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I do not believe a formal barrel break in is necessary. I have not been given an intelligent answer why it is necessary.
Do you know why a newly chambered barrel fouls? When you understand, you fix that problem and quit wearing out a barrel with unnecessary cleaning.
Boss Hoss, this is not intended for you as you were bought up on the teachings of Speedy. He has a lot of knowledge.

Butch--the FIRST THING Speedy taught me was to Get a Bore Scope!!!! It does not lie and lets you know how you are doing in your cleaning process. PROPER cleaning does not wear on a barrel as you already know. Issue is 99% of shooters are clueless about cleaning. They Think that they know what is going on but are only guessing. Truth is factory tubes are just beyond hope of getting clean. They are so rough it is very difficult to do.

Funniest thing Speedy taught me about getting extreme copper out is the Sweets and hydrogen peroxide method! You should see people’s eyes when the blue foam comes belching out of the muzzle! Almost as much fun as while at a match someone swearing up and down that his bore is spotless and then getting out the bore scope and letting them take a look!

Let me give you a little hint. Fouling from a new chambered barrel comes from the machining burrs(fluff)from the reamer. Quality barrels as you use have been lapped and have no burrs or sharp edges.
Get a bronze barrel brush and put a small amount of 0000 steel wool on it and polish the throat and lead driving it with a drill. Only takes about 15 seconds. Now you have a broken in barrel without wasting reloading components and cleaning supplies.
Try it.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Let me give you a little hint. Fouling from a new chambered barrel comes from the machining burrs(fluff)from the reamer. Quality barrels as you use have been lapped and have no burrs or sharp edges.
Get a bronze barrel brush and put a small amount of 0000 steel wool on it and polish the throat and lead driving it with a drill. Only takes about 15 seconds. Now you have a broken in barrel without wasting reloading components and cleaning supplies.
Try it.

Butch--I look at mine with the bore scope and to be honest they have never needed it. Speedy and I look at them when they are still on the lathe. One reason I only use a few shots--just makes me feel good I guess lol. Factory rifle this might just work if the chamber in concentric lol.

All the recommendations avoid the question - How do you remove ALL the carbon without removing the copper, when they are in multiple layers of copper over carbon over copper etc.?????

Yes I have used Sweets and almost ruined my Tikka 222 by leaving it on for too long. Fortunately it still shoots 1/2 inch 5 shot groups.

I have seen many test reports of all the solvents with bullets weighed & immersed in the solvent for 24 hours and then weighed again. Hoppes No9 does not dissolve any copper.

Yes I have used Butches Boreshine & Shooters' choice and they were great until I tried Wipeout.

Now I use carburetor cleaner and Wipeout / Accellerator alternatively & they work very well.

Back a few years ago Ed Shilen said he was having good luck with Wipeout. I called and ordered a case. The owner said to run a patch with mineral spirits through the bore first. Said it made it work a little faster. They now have accelerator. I was able to round up 3 cases of the old GM Top Engine cleaner. I make my cleaner now in a gallon jug. I use 1 pint of white ammonia, 1 can of Kroil, and top it off with the GMTEC. The top engine cleaner works on the carbon, ammonia on the copper, and Kroil is a penetrating lube. Works for me and as Boss said"You can check it with your bore scope".

sounds like what I used to do, except with Mystery oil instead of Kroil.

This looks like a decent bore scope.
Bore scope

I would not buy that borescope if I were to buy one.Man I would love to see what the bores of my Searcy double look like.

Check alibaba - www.alibaba.com/product-detail...usb_60091162181.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product...ideo_1501505423.html

Lots of options. Just be sure about diameter. The older design like the Hawke are still available.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Check alibaba - www.alibaba.com/product-detail...usb_60091162181.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product...ideo_1501505423.html

Lots of options. Just be sure about diameter. The older design like the Hawke are still available.

Have you bought one of the models you have a link for or are you just giving a link to something just for fun?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I would not buy that borescope if I were to buy one.Man I would love to see what the bores of my Searcy double look like.

why not?

I bought a cheap borescope from China once and it did not work and I wasted my money.So unless I get a good review that I trust I am not buying a cheap one again.

Will the Sweets and Hydrogen Peroxide affect the bluing? I recall if hydrogen peroxide is mixed with something (I cannot recall what the "something" is) it will strip the bluing off.

H2O2 and any form of metal does not mix. Muriatic acid and Hydrogen Peroxide do about that same amount of oxidative damage to metal. To be avoided at all costs.

Anyone who believes that Sweets is the best has never tried KG-12 which happens to be water-soluable and infinitely more safe on metal surfaces plus removes more copper than any other solvent.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
H2O2 and any form of metal does not mix. Muriatic acid and Hydrogen Peroxide do about that same amount of oxidative damage to metal. To be avoided at all costs.

Anyone who believes that Sweets is the best has never tried KG-12 which happens to be water-soluable and infinitely more safe on metal surfaces plus removes more copper than any other solvent.

I thought hydroygen peroxide and guns did not play well together.

As to the Sweets, that bottle has sat on the shelf for 10 yrs. after I discovered KG-12.

This thread is the reason I use Lothar Walthar barrels..I don't have to mess with them, they have a patented polishing system that beats all the rest by a bunch..The guy that invented the bore snake should be immortalized with a statue in front of the NRA building or the Alamo!

What Rusty said, says it all.

Well for the record, Benchresters for ions have used "Blue Goop", they even named it...A quart of 20% Amonia and a cup of Hydrogen Peroxide is the best of all copper removers and it will not damage your bore if you use it properly, and not leave in the bore more than 15 or 20 minutes and dry the bore and oil it profusely..Same with Amonia..By the same token more bores are ruined with cleaning rods than all the cleaning chemicals combined..scratch, scratch, scratch, is the baddest of bad.....

I forgot to mention that your post states that a rifle will typically shoot 1.5 inches but when clean properly will shoot 1/2 inch..

I did not know that rifles typically shot 1.5 inches and when cleaned would shoot 1/2".

Must be a lot of really clean bores out there..

Bold words for a one eyed fat man! John Wayne in Rooster Cogburn!