I started using wipe out about 3 years ago and thought it was the absolute answer. Soak over night, two patches and viola its clean because the second patch came out clean. Well I have noticed over time that accuracy in the same rifle would drop off quickly so I would do the 30 minute quick soak at the range and its good to go. About 6 months ago I mixed up a gallon of the Eds Red bore cleaner without the lanolin and started scrubbing before using wipe out, and the crud was horrible. Wipe out over night and the same thing I thought it was clean. Well this "season" I have started something new to see if I can get on an easier regimine. I scrubbed with ER and wipeout over night, dirty bright blue patches. Scrub with ER again, dirty patches, Wipe out Bright blue liquid and dirty patches. this has gone on for three days. I let the ER soak for about 3 hours before scrubbing and run a soaked bore brush about 50 strokes and patch out. I am now getting dirty patches that are lighter in color but still "like" a dark gray. I just havent been doing a thorough job over the years, but you can guarantee I will from now on.

Interesting Russ, I'd say that is one fouler of a barrel. I'd consider firelapping if it doesn't come clean for you pretty soon--pun intended!

I bought a can of Outers Bore Cleaner foam and used it on a .243 I recently purchased. I did it a couple of times and patches were clean.

The other day i got a new bottle of Butch's Bore Shine and ran a patch threw the .243 barrel and it came out blue. I spent the next six hours soaking and scrubbing out the barrel with Butch's until I finally got just a hint of green. No more foam for me.

Why do so many shooters feel the need to get the barrel so clean you could eat off it? I've discovered that some barrels take quite a few rounds to regain accuracy lost through making them sparkle.
a good way to clean out accumulated gunk is to pour a pint or two of boiling water down the barrel prior to cleaning. my gunsmith recommends this every 100 rounds or so.It sure does flush out the nasty stuff
rob

Hey Russ, About 5-6 years ago I got a call from a Louisiana Buddy in a total panic. Deer Season was almost on him and when he checked his rifle it was shooting patterns instead of the nice small groups he was used to. WHAT CCOULD IT BE???

We talked about it a bit and I told him I'd call him back the next day. After thinking about it over night, I asked what he had done to the rifle as soon as the Deer Season had closed the previous year. He said he had cleaned it real well, lightly lubed it and put it in where it could not be touched by anyone.

Uuuuhh..., What do you mean "Cleaned it real well"? He said he got out his BoreSnake and...

I was laughing so hard by then that he asked what was so funny. ANYWAY, I "suggested" he give the BoreSnake to someone he disliked and to get back to cleaning the Bore properly. It took him about 5 afternoons of soaking and scrubbing(after work) to get all the Copper and Powder Residue out. Once it was clean, it went right back to the same small groups he was used to.
-----

I've used the Outer's Foaming Bore Cleaner "1-time" and it did right well. But, I doubt I'll just use it alone and forget what I'm used to doing.

quote:

Originally posted by robz:
Why do so many shooters feel the need to get the barrel so clean you could eat off it? ...

Hey Rob, I like mine that way because; 1. The consistancy of the very first shot coming from my pristine-clean, lightly-lubed, and dry-wiped Bore is what interests me for my Hunting. 2. I was raised properly.

Best of luck to all you folks.

Ya got to use a bronze brush to break that crud/carbon out of there even after soaking with any chemical concocktion

I am with Hot Core,,[QUOTE]Hey Rob, I like mine that way because; 1. The consistancy of the very first shot coming from my pristine-clean, lightly-lubed, and dry-wiped Bore is what interests me for my Hunting. 2. I was raised properly.{/QUOTE]

I am about to attribute the residure on the patches to wear on the bronze brush. I have since soaked it with wipe out and tried sweets and shooters choice solvents and when going behind the solvents with clean patches they come out of the barrel clean. Sooo,,,,,,its ready for the range.

I believe that some of the fouling shots you hear people talk about that there guns have to settle in is from improper cleaning in the first place. Once it "clean" the left over carbon and copper layers have to be smoothed over and a similar layer laid all the way down the barrel for accuracy to return. I have seen it happen. Lets see what this sparks.

'fouler' shots, IMO do just as much, or more for the shooter than they do for the barrel. in the 2 shots or so you re-familiar yourself with that rifle and get the first shot out of the way, which for me settles me down a little and i can on with focusing on shooting good groups.

Robz, I think your right. Rick Jamison shot a 1000 rounds through two barrels with no cleaning and groups opened only .8 tenths or so. Gunsmiths say more barrels are ruined by cleaning excessively or improperly than by shooting. A bore guide is a must. Lucas guides seem to be the best for the money.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnunman:
...Gunsmiths say more barrels are ruined by cleaning excessively or improperly than by shooting. ...

Any idea "what" they are doing to cause the damage?

Magnunman,
I cannot be right. apparently I was not raised properly.
i have however, found that a couple of applications of wipeout followed by some hoppes and then finished off with Tera bore conditioner does the job for me. the barrels look nice and shiny and shoot well right from the word go. I have a custom rem .223 with a stainless barrel, that just refuses to foul. It shoots under 3 inches at 300 mtrs all day every day, yet all it gets is some hoppes and a final swab with militec and a pint of boiling water down the barrel every now and then.
rob

Well, they could be leaving Sweet's in for 17 minutes.

Ah-ha, the old "Ammonia-left-in-the-barrel-too-long-trick". If that is what is going on then I can see why the Gun Smith would say that.

quote:

Originally posted by robz:
...I cannot be right. apparently I was not raised properly...

You are soooo fortunate to have found this thread. Now you can be SAVED and put on the rightous path of redemption to the glory of hunting with pristine clean barrels for the First Shot(and lightly lubed, then a couple of dry patches to remove any residual excess).

It would be terrible ot go through your entire life, get to the Pearly Gates and St. Pete ask, "Uhmmm, what's this about you hunting with a Fouled Bore???!?!?!?!?? Take the Down escalator!"

That's ok. The part of Heaven I'm going to is on the side furthest away from obsessive compulsives.such questions i;m sure won't be asked.

I just do not think you can get a bbl clean with chemicals alone. I beleive you must use a brush and/or a cleaner like JB.

First round out accuracy after cleaning can be a problem. So far I have found after using Pro-Lix as the last "juice" in the bbl, my first round out has been "spot on".

quote:

Originally posted by robz:
...The part of Heaven I'm going to is on the side furthest away from obsessive compulsives. such questions i;m sure won't be asked.

Obsessive compulsives? Sounds like folks headed toward the Down Escalator for sure.

I'll save you a seat by the fire. I'll mix the drinks while you clean the rifles!

Who ever gets there first needs to pre-scout the place. I'd be looking for good Deer Hunting spots near a creek where it is relatively "warm"(shouldn't be too hard to find), places the Ladies "hang out" in Bikinis and of course the Gun Cleaning Room!

I'm glad I found this thread, as I was thinking of this very topic after cleaning my No.1 today after shooting a few rounds. Seems I can clean and clean and clean the bore and I can never get it to that point of the patches coming out clean. I had been using sweets and its doing a fine job of taking care of the copper fouling but its the black gunk that I'm having trouble with. I can use hoppes and get it somewhat clean but if I do much scrubbing it never seems to end. Today I used some Remington bore cleaner and it was the same deal. Put some of it on a bronze brush and ran it up and down the bore 10 times and the next patch is BLACK. After about 8 or 9 patches with hoppes it was finally looking better as the patches just had a hint of gray. I ran a second bronze brush with Remington bore cleaner and sure enough, the next patch is black as the ace of spades. I'm afraid I'm cleaning it too well, as I have a tendancy to get a little carried away on these sort of things but after reading some of these other posts, maybe I'm not doing a good enough job. Can you ever get the bore clean enough that the patches come out as white as they went in AFTER you use your cleaner of choice and a brush? Inquiring minds want to know!!

try kerosene. I picked up a Jungle carbine that was absolutely filthy. scrubbing the bore with kerosene really moved a lot of accumulated gunk from the bore, then HOT CORE (before you think i've seen the light and repented on my sinful ways ) i went back to my usual two applications of Wipeout, a couple or three patches of hoppes and some Tetra bore conditioner before tucking her in to bed.
rob
ps
for hunting by the fire we will need a powder that doesn't mind high temperatures.

Cobrajet,

have you cleaned the brush after its first application? Thereby I mean, REALLY cleaned it. Rinse with water and detergent.
Otherwise you will simple dump the old gunk by means of the brush back into the barrel and your patches come out black.

I have a small bottle of hoppes that I use as a rinse so after I run a brush through I dunk it in the bottle and give it a spin or two and pat it dry. I may try a different method that is more thorough and see how that works. Has anyone out there used the Remington Bore Cleaner, the brownish colored mild abrasive stuff?

quote:

Originally posted by robz:
...before you think i've seen the light and repented on my sinful ways ...

Hey Cobrajet, Got get the cheapest spray can of Brake Cleaner or Carb Cleaner you can find. Use it to clean your Brass Brush immediately after using it. You need to use the Spray - outside, or the BOSS will get all fired up. There is also an Industrial Grade "Orange Scent" spray cleaner I've been trying for the same thing and it works well indoors.

Invest in a Nylon Bore Brush and see if it leaves the same residue. It probably will fix the problem, and I spray them off too.

You could try brushing with Kroil only and patch out with Kroil after. The bore cleaners attack your brush and leaves a residue in the barrel. I use solvents to remove the fouling and then patch dry then use Kroil to brush with then patch dry then use Sweets to get rid of the copper then patch dry then neutralize the sweets with Butch's gun oil as it tells you when the Sweets is gone.

Have you ever tried using the break cleaner directly on the barrel?

every time you run a brush through the barrel you must chant "MEA CULPA! MEA CULPA!".
The rest of us heathens will continue on our misguided journey and clean enough to get the job done.
a small bottle filled with white spirits for the brushes between cleans will neutralize any solvents. works kinda like those jars in barber shops where the combs are left between haircuts
HOTCORE,
I'm still checking out the hunting down by the fire. Will keep you posted, unless of course you get there first.
rob

Hey Cheepshot, It will remove ALL the lubricant. And if you accidentally get it on the stock, it can rip some finishes right off.

quote:

Originally posted by robz:
...HOTCORE, I'm still checking out the hunting down by the fire. Will keep you posted, unless of course you get there first.
rob

Got down in the LOW 50s the past few nights. Warm and HOT is what I like (might as well condition myself to it).

Not sure if I can drink HOT brew though.

What about automotive solvent, I have a solvent tank for cleaning auto parts, will the petro based solvents do any harm?

hotcore,
with your connections i'm sure we'll have some ice delivered.

Hot core One of my buddies was informed as a couple of his hunting pals were coming out of the deer woods that he had forgotten to get ice for the beer in the truck. They had two choices. Drink warm beer or take the truck all the way back to town for cold ones. His answer"I always have been partial to warm beer"


When I first got Wipeout they told me to take my cleanest barrel and put wipeout in it overnight and see what came out of it. I had cleaned and scrubbed my 375 barrel to a fare the well. The patches came out blue as could be. Made me a believer.

I'm filling in for Hotcore who is away with the Inqusition restoring souls
BLASPHEMER! scrub 'til it sparkles., chanting mea culpa! with each pass of the rod.
just don't get that wipeout on the woodwork. It works great on cosmoline as well.
Where hotcore and i are headed ice will be the least of our worries.
rob

quote:

Originally posted by Cheepshot:
What about automotive solvent, I have a solvent tank for cleaning auto parts, will the petro based solvents do any harm?

I don't know. Never tired it.

If you have a "good buddy" experiment with it on his rifle.

quote:

By D Hunter's buddy:
"I always have been partial to warm beer"

I had a good buddy who figured out that Old Milwaukee gave me the Green Apple Quick Step - so that is the ONLY BREW he kept in his refrigerator.

quote:

By robz:
Where hotcore and i are headed ice will be the least of our worries.

Last week I decided to get my CZ 550 barrel (416 Rigby) really super clean. I did a combination of WipeOut and then JB paste/Kroil applications on a patch over a soft wire brush. I did it over and over until the barrel surface is like a mirror.

Problem is I don't want to shoot it now that it's so clean.

Wink,
If you don't shoot the thing you'll end up scouting the terrain for Hotcore and I. Shhot it till your shoulder hurts!
rob(mea maxima culpa)z

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
...Problem is I don't want to shoot it now that it's so clean.

Hey Wink, You can always re-re-re-clean them once they are CLEAN!

But I totally agree with RobZ -

I have been considering my options for at least a week now and have decided to shoot my .416 Rigby, in spite of the barrel being clean. Those of you who have ever gotten your barrel really clean know just how difficult a decision this is. I will report back on the psychological impact.

just ship it to hotcore.I'm sure he'll be happy to make it sparkle for you.
rob

Because countless AR members were counting on me to measure the velocity of Norma 416 Rigby factory loads, I went and shot the mother today. 3 shots with 350 grain Hornady reloads, a couple of shots with my reloads with Swift A-Frames and 4 shots of the Norma factory solids. 9 shots in all. By the way, the Norma factory solids are real whimps, only 2,200 fps.

As soon as I got home I wet a patch with WipeOut Accelerator and oh the anguish when I pushed the patch through the barrel: that sensation that the barrel was coated with sandpaper, I could almost hear the patch go through, as if I was shoving it through sand. I did it twice just to make sure. My wife came out and said, "lunch is served". "Not now, can't you see I'm busy!" If you're still married then you know the look I got. Then the foam. No fancy systems, one finger in the chamber and a long stretch to the end of the barrel.

Had lunch. Fortunately France was playing Georgia in World Cup rugby so I had something to do, at least until half-time. I decided to take a look at my chemistry experiment. The heartbreak of ink blue foam oozing out the barrel and dripping on my porch hit me. I swear I'm never shooting that rifle again, that is if I ever again get it as clean as it was before I went to the range.

On second thought, I'm going to change religion and join those who think a too clean barrel isn't good for accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
...On second thought, I'm going to change religion and join those who think a too clean barrel isn't good for accuracy.

Tossin in the towel - Goooood Gosh!!!