Although I do not leave ammonia based products in my barrel overnight, how long is too long?
I use Bore Scrubber, and I let it soak for about 30min before I start to see blue patches.
Besides the soak I am normally done after about 20min of brushing and patches.
If I am still getting blue patches, I let soak again one more time for 30, and brush/patch.
I try not to leave the stuff in there for more than 2 hours.

I am sure other inquiring minds(I.E. FNG's) would want to know how long is too long.

You know, making this a sticky could be useful.

Interesting question, I would like to know also. I am curious to also find out what exactly ammonia does. According to Barnes's website under the description of CR-10, they say ammonia attracts moisture, which causes the barrel to rust. I personally just follow the directions on the bottle. Plus, at some point, the reaction between the solvent and fouling starts to come to an end and more solvent needs to be added; and I don't know how long this takes either.

I use Tetra copper solvent and as per Kenneth1 I followed the directions on the bottle. I only shoot target and always clean after every five shots using Tetra action blaster and bore lubricant/conditioner. When I get home from the range I clean again but include the copper solvent. However, I leave it in the barrel for 10-15 minutes only.

Regards,

Ammonia can etch your barrel among other things

In a discussion of this very subject, Jim Sweet (the "inventor" of Sweet's7.62 Bore Solvent) told me in 1979 to NEVER leave his solvent in the bore of my match rifles for more than 15 minutes, and to then ALWAYS follow it with a good neutralizing gun oil.

The best advice is to always follow the directions on the bottle. Ammonia is hygroscopic and will etch or frost a bore over time. There are two ammonia-based products which state they can be left in the bore for longer than 20 minutes - Butch’s Bore Shine and Montana X-Treme. Montana X-Treme is one of the most aggressive solvents on the market. It requires a lot less scrubbing than Sweets or CR-10 because you can soak the bore for much longer periods.

As with any ammonia-based copper solvent, neutralize the solvent with either Hoppe's, Kroil, or something similar. Do not use another ammonia based solvent unless you have neutralized the previous application. i.e. do not use Shooter’s Choice immediately following Sweets. After cleaning and neutralizing, finish with a good, non-teflon based oil. Under no circumstances should you use WD-40 as a long term protectant.

Remember, you can do more damage to a bore through improper cleaning techniques than by shooting...

There is nothing wrong with using WD-40, as the final oiling, been using it for many many years in my rifles and shotguns.

Sorry to disagree, however, it is well documented that WD-40 volatilizes and will varnish over time. It was not intended as a long term lubricant. The “WD†stands for Water Displacing and is fine for some applications, but not as a preservative and not for use in firearms.

Oil Tests

I use Butch’s Gun Oil, but some folks swear by Automatic Transmission Fluid as a long term preventative...

That guy who did those oil tests, already has 2 strikes against him. 1. He's an engineer, 2. Now he is a lawyer.
Funny, Kroil is supposed to be the best in rifle bores, he has it as the worst!
FWIW, I have never ever seen WD-40 varnish or gum up. I use it for alot of things at home and on the job, and it performs just fine, and I will continue to use it on all my firearms.

FWIW I shoot my guns too frequently for the WD to gum up or thicken. Depends on the application. If I were to pack up my guns for months - say while I will be out of the country for 4 months in May, then I would not use WD.

After a thorough cleaning, I use Sentry's Tuff Cloth and Tuff Glide. Seems to work very well in the high humidity of Louisiana- haven't had any problems at all.

I don't know for sure (I'm an engineer, not a chemist), but the only two rifles I have ever had pitted by ammonia-based cleaners were rifles that I had shot both lead and copper bullets in. They were pitted to the point of ruin.

So be darn careful if you shoot both types of bullets!

I have left household ammonia (5%) in barrels for up to 4 hours followed by cleaning with Butch's Bore Shine with no ill effects.

Hello the campfire:
I also use wd-40 to protect the exterior of my rifles snd pistols. I find that for short time wipe downs it works fine and does nor stay "oily" It does displace water and is thin enough to creep in to tight places by capullary action. If I am looking at long term storage I like the varnish that wd-40 seals the metal with. It is easly removed by another wipe down with wd-40, or a spray of break free, or mineral spirets or lighter fliud.
For barrels, I use Hoppies for short time. RIG for long term. In actions I like a griphite/synthetic grease mixture that is easly cleaned off.Under dusty conditions I like dri-slide or similar. This holds for very cold conditions also.
Put greash where grease needs to be and oil where it needs to be.
for VERY tight and FINE actions, nothing beats sperm oil, but it is hard to find.

I do not like ammonia products because they contain a large Percent of water. Also, remember trying to beep brass shiny with brasso? Brasso is a lerge oart ammonia and will take off the surface oxidation quickly, but the brass is much slower to come clean.
The problem with brushes is that they can carry grit, brass or nylon.
Finnaly, how clean does a barrel needto be? Are we working our selves to death for something that produces a deminishing return? A little copper may not hurt that much.
Judge Sharpe

Immersed a section of S.S. barrel in Sweets for a week with no APPARENT damage to it.

quote:

Immersed a section of S.S. barrel in Sweets for a week with no APPARENT damage to it.

Bob

I've tried a simliar experiment with a couple inches off the end of a new barrel, same results.

Sweets is not the problem per se; it’s the ammonia content reacting to ambient conditions. In low humidity environments, ammonia is slow to react with metal. However, in high humidity environments ammonia absorbs moisture (hygroscopic) and will begin the corrosion process.

You can soak metal in Sweets with no problems whatsoever. However, partially immerse the metal in a high humidity environment and the outcome is far different. Sweets is perfectly safe as long as you follow label directions. However, it is not advisable to soak bores for long periods with it - especially when the ambient humidity is high.

quote:

Originally posted by Zero Drift:
...As with any ammonia-based copper solvent, neutralize the solvent with either Hoppe's, Kroil, or something similar. Do not use another ammonia based solvent unless you have neutralized the previous application. i.e. do not use Shooter’s Choice immediately following Sweets. ...

Is regular Shooter's Choice ammonia based?? I always thought it was a powder solvent, much like Hoppe's #9, and not ammonia based???

- mike

Mike you are correct. SC #7 is mostly naptha, mineral oil and ammonium salts. It does not does not contain ammonium hydroxide which is the active ingredient in many copper solvents. SC#7 does contain methyl amyl alcohol which is reactive with ammonium and probably where the warning comes from in mixing ammonium solvents with it...

Thanks Zero. But apart form the ingredients in regular Shooter's Choice, you stand by your advise not to mix it with the ammonia based cleaners. Is this a warning, which has been published (e.g. on the various bottles), or does it arise out of personal experience??

I do know a friend of mine claimed bad barrel erosion from mixing Sweets with cleaner X (I forget the brand), and since I use both Sweets and SC, it has me kind of worried...

- mike

Mike - Ammonia is a very reactive chemical. This is also why it makes a good copper solvent. Whenever you are using a high ammonia solvent, just make sure you neutralize it with something like Kroil, ATF, naptha, or Hoppe’s (which is mostly kerosene & ethyl alcohol) before you hit the bore with another solvent.

After using something like Montana X-Treme, I dry the bore with a few patches, then I use a few patches or nylon brush soaked with Kroil followed by a few more dry patches. The last thing you want is to leave traces of ammonia in a bore. Ammonia is hygroscopic (attracts moisture). Moisture and a squeaky clean bore = corrosion.

Another thing, always clean the chamber last to ensure no solvent has slipped past your bore guide. I have found quite a few magazines and follower springs eaten up with corrosion from solvent that found its way into the chamber and magazine box.

I used to leave Sweets in the barrel overnight. I never noticed any problems from doing so.

Hart was the first one to bring up the problem of mixing SC and ammonia based cleaning products especially on chrome molly barrels. After hearing this from a friend (Al Mirdoch who made McMkraken benchrest bullets )who talked to them that day I phoned SC and was told that they had not heard this yet and would contact them .Then the next bottles had the warning on them.
I have destroyed one barrel myself by leaving Roblo Solo(ammonia cleaning solution Germany) in a barrel for 35 minutes on a summer night.I ran a few patches through the barrel and had supper.When I patched it out I had to add more solution because it had dried.The next day I lost 160 fps and got groups of 4+ in. vertical by .3 horizontal at 200 yards .When I cleaned it and checked the bore with a lens in a brass tube(Wally Siebert ) I could see Large pits in the throat.The barrel was a Douglas cm that had under 300 rounds thru it and shot extremely well prior to this incident.
Having the instructions translated later I found the recomendation was to fill the barrel and add a rubber sleve so that the barrel could be over filled and no air contact the steel while the solution worked.The barrel was fine the day before at 100 yards. An expensive education .
Glenn

I was recently given some CR-10 as a gift. Learned a few things.

Barrel in question is a 23 yr old Rem 700 factory barrel in 30-06. I learned to try and follow the instructions fairly close. I had run a CR-10 soaked patch through the barrel and before I could get back to it and neutralize the ammonia with Hoppes, I got called away to a family emergency. Several days later when I remembered the barrel, I ran a dry patch and it came out with plenty of brown (rust) gooey substance. I live in Utah and the humidity here is fairly nil. The barrel cleaned up "ok" and fortuneatly it still shoots the 180 Nos BT's MOA or nearly out to 400 yds.

The other thing I learned was I like to leave the CR-10 in for 10-15 minutes (15 is max suggested time on label) before I repeat.

Big Al

I bought a bottle of a German bore cleaner, very high ammonia content as I almost fainted when I opened the bottle. For this particular cleaner they recommend plugging the barrel at the breach and filling up the bore with the solvent, right up to the top, and leave overnight. However, it has to totally fill the bore. Maybe some of the chemists out there can confirm that if the high ammonia content solvents are not in contact with air and humidity then they are not too dangerous for long periods as oxydation is minimal.

Lilja suggest that you leave sweets in the barrel for up to 7 minutes.

Sweets can be left longer, it just has to be kept wet and not allowed to dry (this is when the atmospheric compounds are left after the attracted water evaporates away, forming the acids).

The Shooters Choice company says that you just can't mix the sweets and SC IN THE SAME CONTAINER/ I was told they could be used one behind the other, as long as they were not MIXED. Dry patch the sweets then run the SC.

I personally have gone to wipeout and Montana Extreme 50BMG. This stuff will knock you out, but it safe to leave in the bore. Montana Extreme is OIL INFUSED, so even with very strong ammonias, it will not allow pitting. The ME 50BMG is super aggresive if you don't have time to wait for wipeout.

Wink -thats the same stuff I was talking about-just don't let it dry out in the barrel.
When I started shooting BR amonia based cleaners such as Sweets were the normal cleaning materials recomended.I also cleaned many firearms for customers over many years. These ranged from those using a few patches every year to guns that were cleaned every twenty rounds using the latest products.
I believe that Shooters choice mixed 2/1 with Marvel Mystery Oil is the best combination for normal cleaning aproximately every 20-30 rounds. I run two patches with solution -then brush one complete pass for each round fired. Let sit for 10 minutes and patch out. Then put 3 small drops of Mystery Oil on a loose patch and run through barrel and shoot. This alows the barrel to stay in a consistant condition for a number of shots.The major problem is carbon fouling can still build up in the throat and must be removed when you feel a change in drag on the brush. I still use a little old JB on a tight patch with a good bore guide every 100 rounds to keep this under control.
I believe most using cleaners with ammonia clean the barrel completely and then the barrel condition changes each shot fired-not a good thing to use all the time. [Do a search for "Hatchers Note book" for the early history and reasons for using ammonia in higher concentrations to clean barrels.Note the cautions. Harry Pope tried this in barrels after he found it agressively attacked his brass water pistol that he used on dogs while on a bicycle riding to the range each morning.]
Ed's Red can be left in a barrel and will clean and protect a barrel safely between shooting.

Glenn

I used about 40 bottles of Roblo Solo etc in two years with no problems- then I got caught by a hot summer night .

One reason that I now clean as I do and use MMO is that my first shots impact in the same group in BR and hunting rifles.

Glenn