I've been using Sweet's 7.62 solvent in my carbon steel guns, no problems; but i don't leave it in the bore very long.
Now I've got a Winchester stainless Model 70, of course the barrel is stainless. I would expect that stainless would be LESS likely to be harmed by the Sweet's, but some time in the past i heard that Sweet's is more likely to attack a stainless barrel than a carbon steel one. True or false?

I used to use Sweet's in both carbon and s/s, now I use Wipe Out exclusively for copper. No comparison in performance.

I use bore-tech eliminator with great success.

quote:

Originally posted by Gearhead Jim:
but some time in the past i heard that Sweet's is more likely to attack a stainless barrel than a carbon steel one. True or false?

Sweets 7.62 doesn't harm any barrel steel, as stated on the label.
When I first got a ss range barrel I asked the gunsmith about such rumers, and he said he has some off cuts continually soaking in a container of Sweets and it hasn't even discoloured them let alone damaged them.

So my ss barrel has done thousands of rounds with Sweets after each shoot and is going well.

I'm thinking the warning on the label about not leaving it in for long has a lot of people jumping to conclusions.
The reason is not about damage.

Thanks for the comments!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:
I use bore-tech eliminator with great success.

+1!!!

JAL;
Im no chemical expert, and Im not saying your wrong, but I have read countless articles stating that any amonia based copper remover will cause a berrel to rust if left in to long. If this is not accurate, why have so many writers for the gun rags as well as other so called informed experts perpetuate such a myth?

BTW, count me also as a HUUUGE fan of Wipe-Out.

Ditto on the Wipe-Out!!

Some professional opinions on ammonia based solvents.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#Ammonia

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reference/hgtools.cfm

http://www.precisionrifles.com/Cleaning%20Procedures.htm

quote:

Originally posted by ART338WM:
JAL;
Im no chemical expert, and Im not saying your wrong, but I have read countless articles stating that any amonia based copper remover will cause a berrel to rust if left in to long. If this is not accurate, why have so many writers for the gun rags as well as other so called informed experts perpetuate such a myth?

BTW, count me also as a HUUUGE fan of Wipe-Out.

The Sweet's label states to remove within a certain time, 15 minutes I think. This has NOTHING to do with amonia harming the steel. Sweets, and maybe other amonia based solvents is water based, so it's not a good idea to leave the water in too long.

Also apparently the amonia evaperates quite soon, so there is no point on waiting any longer.
One lad on this forum wrote that if the mix did dry out the mix and copper would "set" and you'd be back where you started or worse.

Then there is the attention span of the average shooter. If you could leave it in for a few days, guess how many would forget about it and leave the bore unprotected.

Now the label states it will not harm barrel steel, and also implies (i think) that it will not protect it. ON a troublesome barrel I've had the stuff in for a week, getting refreshed quite often, with no harm done.
But even with stainless I'd run some sort of rust preserver thru after, I just use Hoppies No.9

Several years ago one of the gun mags ("Magnum" from South Africa, I think) had a brief article by a fellow who left Sweet's in his rifle barel overnight, next morning he had at least one distinct pit near the muzzle. Accuracy suffered accordingly. I can't recall if the barrel was stainless or carbon steel. The overall tone of the article indicated that he was a careful fellow who would have noticed if the pit was there previously.

A friend of mine normally used Break Free CLP to protect his guns from rust after cleaning, one day he got busy and just wiped down the exterior of a blued S&W with Hoppes #9. A few days later it was starting to show rust. My experience was similar, a Browning Hi Power barrel was left totaly slobbered with #9 for a week in my basement, the Hoppes was still dripping off the barrel when i checked it at the end of the week but small areas of rust were beginning to form. Weather was humid that week, but still...

I think one of the most important things to do went using Sweet's is to neutralize it after use in your barrel. I use at the time Butch's gun oil as it turns a funky brown color until the Sweet's is neutralized. Long ago we had a chemist at Rocket Research in Redmond, Wa. do an anylisis of Sweet's and how long it would have to be in the barrel for damage to occure and he came up with some off the wall figure of 112 years. I swab it out after 7 minutes. That's what Dan Lilja suggested. Works for me.

Well, I give up. Anyone with a pitted barrel can (try) to sue Sweets. With all the "evidence" out there, (and paranoia), there'll be new barrels handed out wholesale.

Best of luck proving it wasn't moisture, like the character in Africa, who disregarded the lablel. Nowhere does it say "protects against rust."

sweets is the best,just blows all the others away,but you got to use it with jb if you are shooting molly.

the problem comes when the sweets dries,..the residue attracts the environmental moisture and with the elements in the air, it forms an ACID. this is not a rumor,..it is the reason for the warning about 15min. As long as you don't let it dry and leave it in after that, it will not harm a bore. I switched to wipe-out and never looked back since.

I also have a m70 stainless barrel and I use Montana extreme 50 bmg copper cleaner. It only took about 10-15 minutes to totally get all the copper out of the barrel. That was after 100 rds through it. I have seen no ill affects to the barrel at this time. The only bad thing about Montana extreme is the boot camp flashbacks of the tear gas tanks...

I have used sweets and cr-10 for many years and have never seen any damage to any of my rifle barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by WY:
I used to use Sweet's in both carbon and s/s, now I use Wipe Out exclusively for copper. No comparison in performance.

PM me your address and I'll send you free of charge a sample bottle of Warthog 1134 bore cleaner. I'll count it as a sale and enter your name in the rifle contest. Follow up Wipe-Out with a patch of Warthog. About 8 drops ought to do it. Make sure you don't use a brass jag. I use an undersize brush with a 1.5 inch patch wrapped around it. A .22 works well in a .270 or 7MM, and a 270/7MM works in a .30. Use a steel shank brush.

Have a look at this site. Find the test I did on Wipe-Out. I follwed up Wipe-Out with Warthog. You can do the same. But dodn't mess up the test by using Warthog with and brass or bronze tool.

http://warthog1134.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Gearhead Jim:
I've been using Sweet's 7.62 solvent in my carbon steel guns, no problems; but i don't leave it in the bore very long.
Now I've got a Winchester stainless Model 70, of course the barrel is stainless. I would expect that stainless would be LESS likely to be harmed by the Sweet's, but some time in the past i heard that Sweet's is more likely to attack a stainless barrel than a carbon steel one. True or false?

When I did the development on my own bore cleaner, I tested almost every cleaner on the market for corrosion. All of them are safe, unless you abuse them. Use them as instructed.

I do believe that a lot of the problems passed on at these sites and in the gun rags about pitting and such are really from other causes. Blood for one. How many times do you see the hunter on one of the hunting shows on the tube jab the downed game animal with the muzzle of his rifle? I learned during my profressional career that human blood was the most corrosive substance you can put down a bore, and especially, on a blue finish. So, poke a downed beast, a beast that's been punctured, and you have a real possibility of blood getting in the bore and on the fnish.

quote:

Originally posted by wrongtarget:
Ditto on the Wipe-Out!!

Some professional opinions on ammonia based solvents.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#Ammonia

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reference/hgtools.cfm

http://www.precisionrifles.com/Cleaning%20Procedures.htm

The links are interesting. If i read correctly, 1 link says that copper solvents will not harm the barrel, 1 link says they may, and 1 link says they may harm stainless.
Hmmm...

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
the problem comes when the sweets dries,..the residue attracts the environmental moisture and with the elements in the air, it forms an ACID. this is not a rumor,..it is the reason for the warning about 15min. As long as you don't let it dry and leave it in after that, it will not harm a bore. .

I lied, I'm back. I don't know but...
Sweet's label states "non-acid" as well as "harmless to steel".
So it seems to me to be cutting it a bit fine if as soon as it dries it does turn to acid?
These elements in the air, is that acid-rain?

Tell you what. I've got an old .410 barrel I'm going to inspect (near the muzzle) and then lay in some heavy sweet's and see if it does any apparent damage. The barrel will pit if given a chance as the previous owner got some nasty ones in the chamber.

JAL-
That's the experiment I've been wanting to do, please post your results. I don't think you need to keep the Sweet's in there for a month, a week should be plenty.
Will you let the Sweet's dry, or keep it refreshed so it stays liquid?

I've been using Sweets on CM and SS barrels since the late 80's and have detected no problems to date. If was going to happen it would have by now. I never leave it in longer than about five minutes. Afterwords I always use Butches or Hoppes to purge it out of the barrels.

Gearhead Jim.
I acted before thinking as usual, put some in about 27hours ago now. I had a peek at about 21hours, and nothing was showing except a slight residue of foam where the patch stopped.
The steel near the muzzle looked clear and clean.
I think I'll keep it dry as that is supposed to be the danger. Also of course there is an absense of copper, being a shotgun barrel, and not even any powder residue to help attract moisture. So the test may not be totally relevant.
As soon as any rust sets in I'll wipe it out as the barrel is still usable.

I also today wrote to Sweet's asking them to elaborate on their label, but I won't be holding by breath.

Jay Johnson.
Sure, but the question we're all wondering is what happens if the stuff is left in (say accidently) for hours or even days, except for the danger of rust. It definatly is not a rust preventive, and if the label says 15 minutes you can bet that double that is still safe.
I don't think we are supposed to set a stop watch on the stuff.

This stuff WORKS and is cheap to make

In response to my inquiry on Ed's Pink bore cleaner with copper solvent the "creator" repsonded:

I've been using "Ed's Red" and "Ed's Red Plus" for years, but I've never heard of "Ed's Pink".
Is it possible that you are calling "Ed's Red Plus" "Ed's Pink" or is it a different formulation ???

[indeed I call the formulation you offer:
ED's PINK]

The formulars I've been using are:

Ed's Red Fomular
1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute
"Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

Ed's Red Plus Fomular (Yodar calls Ed's Pink)
11 ounces of basic Ed's Red
2 ounces of 10%-20% industrial strength ammonia
2 ounces of Rustlick WS-11 cutting oil or suitable alternative
1 ounce of Murphy's Oil Soap