Wanted to get opionions on whether or not you run your brushes and patches one way only, right out the muzzle, never to return, or if they come back through for a second, third, forth, etc, go 'round.

When I push my fist few wet patches down the bore, it's a one way trip. I don't start running back and forth until much latter.

Now that I have a new Lilja barrel enroute, I sure don't want to mess it up.

Opinions please and if possible, reasons why to back up your claim.

Same here, never back and forth on the first passes with a patch, carbon fouling is abrasive, that wouldn't be good. For me, no bronze brushes either, just nylon if I need a brush, don't usually need to brush with foaming bore cleaner.

Lilja barrel cleaning info...

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm

Tell me now, when a bullet heads down the bore, is it abrasive? I believe that any bronze brush, nylon brush or patch will be much less abrasive than that.

I only use nylon brushes since bore cleaners that attack copper in the barrel are also going to attack copper brushes. I used to use stainless steel brushes but no longer see the need to with a good bore cleaner and I really hardly use any brushes preferring to use patches.

I put my cleaning rod in from the breech and out the muzzel and then put a patch on the slotted end. The initial pass is thus a pull through the barrel from the muzzel making it less likely for cleaning fluid, etc. to drip into the action. When I draw the patch out of the breech, I reverse the direction bringing the clean portion of the patch in contact with the barrel for its trip out to the the muzzel where it is then changed. I do it this way not because I'm afraid of abrading the bore but to take full advantage of the entire cleaning area of the patch/cleaning fluid.

patches on the right jag with solvent-once through. brushes, all the way through then back again.patches with jb,short stroke through.never try to short stroke a brush especially in a stainless barrel.if you do barrel will end up in the garbage along with the brush.

It is essential to use a good bore guide to keep the shit out of your chamber. never never never never never never never never never never use a stainless brush on any bore. A phosphor bronze brush will not hurt a bore in 10,000 years. Using a phosphor bronze brush without a good bore guide will destroy your bore in short order. It's the improperly used rod that ruins bores, not a brush. The brush is soft compared to any steel barrel be it stainless or chromemoly. If you feel better using nylon then by all means use it but a p/b brush will not hurt anything when properly used. Jim

Bore cleaning is right in there with alchemy!

Bore brushes are NOT "brass" or "copper." They're phosphor bronze. They're designed specifically for the diameter of the bore and don't fit anywhere near as tightly as a bullet. Also, they're not being pushed down the bore by hot nitro cellulose gasses.

Everyone has a "method."

I start with a swab on an "eye." Saturate with solvent, wet the bore. I run the swab out the muzzle and remove it from the eye.

Let it sit for 5 minutes. As mentioned elsewhere, keep the crud from running back into the action. I set the rifle in a cleaning rest, muzzle slightly down.

Then a wet patch on a jag. One way! I don't think you can "pull" a jagged patch back through the bore.

Bronze phosphor brush, wet, back and forth. I like 10 passes. 10 out, 10 back.

Let it sit another five minutes.

Wet patch on a jag. Dry patch, second dry patch.

Wet, dry, dry.

Wet, dry dry.

Oh yeah -- I drape a cloth rag across the breech area so the solvent doesn't drip on the furniture.

Also, I wipe down the rod a lot. It gets icky.

Grooves in the jag will accumulate crud. I pick it out with an Exacto knife point, but a toothpick would work.

I keep a rag on the bench to wipe down the rod. Also I wipe off the muzzle.

Finally, when I'm done shooting, and cleaning, I run a patch saturated with some sort of high-tech, synthetic polymer. It's good for the steel, but also good stuff for synthetic stocks.

Tetra-Gun" -- I use it on any metal, scales on knives, synthetic stocks, per the label.

Bore cleaning -- It's smoke/mirrors, hocus-pocus. -- Not saying it's BS! It's not BS! But there's a zillion theories!

Cleaning Response Accurate Loading

Firearms have not only been a recreation in my life, they were also a part of my professional career, starting back when I did a stint with the division armorer when I was a naïve 18 year old fresh off the farm and fresh out of basic and very new to the First Infantry Division. I cleaned guns for recreation, and also as part of my profession. (An odd fact that I learned: The most corrosive substance that you can put down a bore or on metal the finish of a gun, is human blood.)

A few years back, I had it with bore cleaning. I started researching bore fouling looking for a better way. I approached the subject with as open a mind as I could muster. I looked at every aspect of bore fouling and bore cleaning. I found that there are about as many Old Wives’ Tales connected to bore cleaning as there are hard truths. Once I had eliminated all of the tales that proved to be tales, I found that not all of the hard truths fit every situation.

One of the more persistent tales is that of pushing a wet patch through the bore one way then taking the patch off and withdrawing the rod. I found some well know shooting gurus warn that never, under no circumstances, draw a dirty patch back through the bore. I watched some very careful bench rest shooters, shooters that are fussy about their barrel to the point of being neurotic, do this very thing at the range between matches. It makes sense, until you consider that you are bouncing and scraping a piece of bare metal down an expensive hole that you are trying hard to protect. I think, and this is only conjecture, that this old wives tale came about because it’s hard to stop the patch from partially exiting the muzzle and when that happens, it’s hard to get it started back down the bore to the entry hole. Simple solution: Drop the patch and pull the loop or jag back through the bore without the protective layer of that stupid patch and an Old Wives’ Tale is born. Another bad thing about dropping the patch after you push it through the bore; you hammer the muzzle/crown with bare metal, something that will make your gunsmith cringe and your barrel maker secretly smile, because he sees another sale coming up. Maybe you’re steady enough to withdraw the rod without contacting the crown or the bore, but I’m not. A rod stop is a solution. Measure out the distance so the patch makes the end of the bore but doesn’t exit, set the stop, and clean away. I tried this solution. One problem. No matter how tight the set screw, the stop eventually slipped. I fixed that in a simple way. I used my lathe to drill a hole through a piece of round plastic stock the exact size of my cleaning rod then cut the stock so that it fits exactly between the handle of my cleaning rod and the bore guide with the jag pushed in the barrel to the point where it just reaches the end of the bore at the muzzle end. I make a stop/spacer for each rifle and bore guide and label them. I can clean away without the patch hanging up and without it falling off. Remember, the patch has a second function besides delivering the cleaning solution and scrubbing out residue; the patch keeps the metal from your cleaning tool from making contact with the metal in your bore, a very important, and overlooked function.

The second Old Wives’ Tale: Almost everything that has to do with brass brushes, or as referenced above, phosphor bronze brushes. No matter how you cut it, the main ingredient of any brass/bronze brush is copper, the very thing we are trying to remove from the bore. A copper solvent that dissolves the copper left behind by a bullet will dissolve the copper in your favorite brush. If you think about it objectively, running a copper alloy brush down a bore saturated with a chemical designed to dissolve copper, makes about as much sense as spraying gasoline on a fire in an effort to put it out. I did extensive experiments with copper alloy brushes and found that they leave more blue copper residue behind than they remove. I used to use bronze brushes, but now use nylon, when I brush at all.

Another Old Wives tale: Nylon will brush copper out of the bore. It won’t. Nylon will distribute and agitate your favorite cleaner, but it won’t scrape anything out of your bore.

If you use a nylon brush, use the kind with a steel shank. Avoid those with a bronze shank. Copper solvent will get on the shank and melt away the copper in the shank.

My experiments showed that most of the blue copper residue coming out of a bore at the end of cleaning actually came from brass jags, bronze brushes, and nylon brushes with bronze shanks, than came from copper left behind by bullets. We actually deposit copper residue in barrels that we clean when we use copper alloy tools.

Brownell’s sells steel shank brushes. I buy them by the dozen. Why buy them by the dozen when if I seldom brush? I use an undersized brush—.22 in a .270—.270 in a .30—with an 1.5 inch patch wrapped around it instead of a brass jag to clean. No problem with introducing copper residue with steel and nylon.

Then next thing I did, was research the best way to remove copper fouling from a bore. There are three methods: Abrasives, chemical and electronic.

Abrasives have an obvious shortcoming.

Electronics are slow and limited.

After months of research, I came up with my own witches’ brew for personal use, something that works and works well. I decided that this stuff was good enough to make a mark in the shooting world, so my hunting partner and I decided to start a company and market the mix. To be frank, one of the first business decisions we made was to stay part time and small so the business won’t interfere with our hunting and fishing. We set up a small operation with limited production at the start. It’s the only product that we sell, and with the exception of jags that will stand up to our product, something we’re researching, the bore cleaner is all that we sell, and all that we will sell. The only place you can get our bore cleaner is on our web site listed below. We have no plans to sell wholesale and know of nothing that will make us sell wholesale, not even money. We do plan to give away some outstanding prizes as our major promotion. First up, a Remington 700 CDL in 30 06. One of the first 1000 orders will win the Remington. In the future we’re thinking of guided hunts and the like, but the top choice for promotions right now remains top name rifles, perhaps even a custom model from the maker of the winner’s choice. We’ll make those decisions down the line.

Early reports from customers that have used our product have ranged from great, to gushing. The stuff really works. There have been a few detractors on the net, detractors that haven’t actually used our product.

There is more information and some tests run by yours truly, and a test run by a customer on his own, posted on our website.

http://warthog1134.com/

I am still waiting for some to try. If you think that blood is the most corrosive substance to a piece of steel, try pissing in anything metal and let it set. I think even you will agree that the blood thing is an "old wives tale" I have been shooting B.R. for quite a while, and know of noone that drags the first few patches back through the bore.

I'm here to tell you that the "blood thing" isn't a wives tale. Just last week someone brought in a rifle with most of it's bluing gone and rusted badly. Cause? Deer blood that had not been removed on a timely basis.

Blood is .9% salt.
You would know something is up if you look at many old carbon steel knives including hunting knives that were not washed clean after cutting meat.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Wanted to get opionions on whether or not you run your brushes and patches one way only, right out the muzzle, never to return, or if they come back through for a second, third, forth, etc, go 'round.

When I push my fist few wet patches down the bore, it's a one way trip. I don't start running back and forth until much latter.

Now that I have a new Lilja barrel enroute, I sure don't want to mess it up.

Opinions please and if possible, reasons why to back up your claim.

Why not call and/or write Dan for his opinion??

As for me:

Years back when I was shooting/training a lot at Quantico, I was instructed to clean from the breech whenever possible. On the M40 I would push the patched-jag or brush out thru the muzzle then remove the entire tip. I'd install a protective cap over the exposed threads then withdraw the entire rod. The rod was coated and w/ the protected tip no metal or edge could catch the crown when drawing it back. Because I was using an oversized rod that flexed when pushing a tight patch, I began using a custom protective delrin muzzle guide and would insert the rod w/ tip protector thru the muzzle and out the breech thru the breech guide. I'd then install the brush or us a special dewey jag that you wrap the patching around and pull everything thru. The muzzle guide acted as a rod stop if I was short stroking the patch as I pulled it thru.

As far as reversing directions mid bore is concerned (once the crud is removed), I've seen this done quite often w/ a patched jag or undersized brush, but most new brushes are not designed to change directions mid-bore. Muzzleloading brushes are designed to do this. Otherwise, the only issue you may encounter is running the patched jag or brush from outside the crown into the muzzle may cause more wear on the crown than running it thru the bore and out the muzzle. Of course anytime you insert anything into the barrel you risk taking the edge off the rifling or damaging the crown.

Now with the advent of Wipe-Out foaming cleaners, I feel that many of the older techniques have become obsolete for most hunting rifles. I now only need to push or pull a minimal number of patches thru the barrel w/out any brushes or stroking to remove any fouling. I think this method has the least chance of damaging the rifling or crown.

GVA

Now, personally I prefer to have some well put together naked babe clean my guns as I've found that the naked babes don't wear out my barrels as quickly as I would.
Should there be a shortage of naked babes I like classical music to be playing near by, because the vibrations encourage the fouling out of the rifling in a gentle manner. Should there be leading I like to use 'Rap' music to hog out the crud.
If I'm caught short of naked babes, and music, I like like to use a worn out bore brush wrapped with a patch dipped in Montana Extreme to wet the bore, set rifle aside, look for naked babes, imagine some Wagner music playing. Then swamp out barrel another time with same patch and solvent, keep looking for naked babes. There is really a shortage of naked babes at the shooting range and my gun room.
Swamp out barrel with jag and several clean patches. If need be I use JB bore paste, then repeat the bore brush and patch, babe hunt. Cleanout solvent, put rifle put gun in safe, continue looking for naked babes.
Jim