I have a new Ruger .375 Alaskan. Scrubbed the bbl pretty good (I thought) when I got it week before last. Headed to the range to check out some new .308 and .338 loads so of course I took it along to start breaking it in. Fired 8 rounds of the Hornady 300 gr factory stuff in the .375 Ruger. Last night I cleaned it - a few patches with Kroil, a few with Break Free bore cleaner, then alternating patches soaked with Sweets (wrapped around Brownell's nylon brush) and dry patches - until the patches with Sweets came out white (no more blue). Lastly, oiled the dry bore with Rem-oil. As I was putting it in the safe, the light hit it just right and I noticed some color down in the bore. I got out a little flashlight and was surprised to clearly see bright copper (sort of evenly deposited / smeared) on all of the lands in the bore - as far as my 46-year-old eyes could see down the muzzle. However, the grooves in the rifling, which are wider than the lands, appeared to be completely clean and free of any copper, etc. While I was not thrilled to see any deposits in the bore, I would have expected the copper to hang in the grooves, instead of the lands???

Suggestions on what to try next to get the copper deposits off the lands?

Thanks!

Any of the foaming cleaners work better than Sweets did for me, and it does it without brushing, just let it work by itself, go do something that's fun while it does the work for ya.

sounds like your barrels lands are just being burnished with the color of your bullets, did you shoot all 8 rounds with out cleaning in between? if so that will build up the copper even more especially in a green barrel. try cleaning with jb bore cleaner that will iron down any nicks dings or high spots on your factory lands. sweets is a very good product but some factory barrels are not as smooth as they should be,your really hand-lapping your barrel with jb.like the way your takeing care of your new barrel.good shooting and regards.

I've had much better luck with Barnes CR-10 than with Sweets. Much better.

I've used Sweets 7.62 for several decades and found many times I needed to scrub a little with JB's to get that last little bit of copper out, not too long ago I bought a bottle of Montana X-treme 50BMG copper solvent, and it got the copper out that the Sweets missed in 264 Wmag.

What ever copper solvent you use (I like Butch's Bore Shine), run a wet patch and let it set for a while. Then run a dry patch. It usually takes a few reps to get all the copper out. And don't forget to alternate occasionally with something like Hoppes #9 to get the powder fouling too.

Deacon Dick with the Sweets scrub it quite a little it will work much better, leaving it set in the barrel doesn't seem to work for me.

Wipe Out!
Pete

quote:

Originally posted by PJ:
Wipe Out!
Pete

Interesting! I picked up an Alaskan last Friday and this morning thought I would clean the barrel. The bore was real dirty which suprised me.
I cleaned it with Copper Melt and CR-10. After cleaning, I noticed the same copper color. I wonder if the black coating on the gun would somehow be the reason we see the same copper looking coating? I just don't understand why my other guns don't have this apperence.

I like wipeout alot. Before I began using wipeout I had found the secret to making sweets alot more powerful. I made a little cradle that held my gun with the muzzle pointed to the floor. I placed a small pan to catch residue. Then I pushed a dry bore mop out the muzzle end and saturated it with sweets. I would stroke up and down the barrel and found that when agitated a blue foam would quickly appear. (probably after 20 strokes). I'd then let the gun sit for about 20 minutes with the sweets foam in there. Then I'd patch it out. Then I'd inspect the lands for residue and if there was some I'd do the whole thing over again. It didn't take long and all the copper was out.

In short....if you can agitate sweets a bit it seems to be lots more powerful.

Now I pretty much use wipeout and let it sit for about 5 hours in my ez cleaning bores and overnight in the tough ones.

One last comment....get about 100 rounds down that Alaskan and I'll bet it cleans up with about 1/2 the effort as when new.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
I like wipeout alot. Before I began using wipeout I had found the secret to making sweets alot more powerful. I made a little cradle that held my gun with the muzzle pointed to the floor. I placed a small pan to catch residue. Then I pushed a dry bore mop out the muzzle end and saturated it with sweets. I would stroke up and down the barrel and found that when agitated a blue foam would quickly appear. (probably after 20 strokes). I'd then let the gun sit for about 20 minutes with the sweets foam in there. Then I'd patch it out. Then I'd inspect the lands for residue and if there was some I'd do the whole thing over again. It didn't take long and all the copper was out.

In short....if you can agitate sweets a bit it seems to be lots more powerful.

Now I pretty much use wipeout and let it sit for about 5 hours in my ez cleaning bores and overnight in the tough ones.

Concur. I have found that to be the key to Sweets 762. Get the froth, leave it for 10 - 15 min, then dry patch. Rinse out BBL with denatured alcohol, dry patch and inspect. Repeat as necessary.
As usual, it is important to get rid of all Sweets residue before adding any other solvent or oil.
JMHO.

quote:

Suggestions on what to try next to get the copper deposits off the lands?

When you want to stop "trying" to get the copper out, start calling around to pool supply stores. Ask them if they carry Ammonium Hydroxide. When you find it it should cost less than $15 a gallon. It is a 28% ammonia/water solution. Mix 9 to 1 with Ivory or Dawn dish detergent. It's easier to work with if you keep it refrigerated, or at least cool. When you mix it, DO NOT shake it, turn the container end over end after adding dish detergent, mixing slowly, with care. Use in a WELL ventilated area. Use gloves and eye protection! You may want to get a good nylon brush to scrub the bore, as this solution will eat up a bronze brush and deposit the bronze on your barrel.

Aqueous ammonia itself won't hurt your bore to use it, but don't leave it in longer than 10-15 minutes. The ammonia and detergent strips all protective oils from your bore. If left in the bore, the water will then rust your barrel. After you are finished, wipe out, then neutralize like you would after using Sweets. Then use a good protective oil. The copper will be history.

FWIW, if you can find a duplicating shop or business that still makes the old fashioned blueprints, they will often give you the expended bottles of 28% for free. It still has enough kick to kick ass on copper.

I use only cotton flannel patches and bore cleaners in this order:

1. Start with Hoppes #9, wet and dry patch
2. Next scrub barrel(20x) with Sweets, wet and dry patch
3. Then scrub barrel(20x) with Iosso, wet and dry patch
4. Another Hoppes #9, wet and dry patch
5. Hoppes Gun Oil, wet and dry patch

and then I'm done, with a copper free barrel, most of the time!

There have been a few times that I have had to repeated steps 2 and 3 till copper was completely gone. But most times I am able to get the copper out the first time through this procedure.

Ok yesterday I used sweets 7.62 but first I used Hoppes for powder fouling. Then soaked it with sweets. Then ran a few strokes with dry patch to remove sweets,then a wet patch of Hoppes then a few strokes with dry patch.Then ran a oil soaked patch and now it sits in safe. I'm I ok?

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
Ok yesterday I used sweets 7.62 but first I used Hoppes for powder fouling. Then soaked it with sweets. Then ran a few strokes with dry patch to remove sweets,then a wet patch of Hoppes then a few strokes with dry patch.Then ran a oil soaked patch and now it sits in safe. I'm I ok?

It has been my experience that your barrel will be ok. The Sweets isn't very hard to clean out, especially if using Hoppes #9 to clean it out. I usually run a dry patch after the oil to remove the excess oil from the barrel.

Seems like from what I'm reading here and on a few other forums, the folks who are having trouble with the Sweets not working are those who apply it and then let it set, then patch or brush it out. I've had much better luck with running a wet patch back and forth for a minute or so and then dry patching out the crud. The foam that it produces is what makes it work. I used to just let it set for 10 minutes then then run a brush back and forth 10 or so times and then follow that with Hoppes. It worked but it took a lot longer. You have to work it up into a foam.

I have tried cleaning the barrel with only the Sweets to cut the copper, but I have found that Iosso will cut the copper out in no time, provided Sweets is used first. I believe the Sweets "softens up" the copper, and the Iosso scrubs it out. Iosso used by itself will get it, but it takes longer.

For both cleaners, scrubbing 20x (push from chamber to muzzel and pull back out = 1 time) is the key. As Cobrjet noted, Sweets needs the scrubbing action to work.

Why do you feel you need to clean 100% of the copper out? I clean with hoppes may be 20 strokes with brush. Wet patch of Hoppes,then dry it out. Then apply Sweets soak for 10 minutes push a blue patch out dry it out and apply another application of Sweets . Then the patch comes out almost white.Dry it out re-apply some Hoppes dry that out and then some break free oil. Plus I'm shooting a 6x284 and 22-250AI this works because I can start shooting tight groups ( 1/2 and better MOA at 100)for another 25 to 50 rounds.With a Clean BBL I've found I need to fire 2 or 3 fowlers to regain P.O.I

It would seem you have your system down pat for your rifles. I guess if I were confident that I am leaving the "proper amount" of copper in the barrel, I would agree.

But I do not mind firing the few fouling shots, especially when working up a load. If I can get good first shots from a clean barrel that match the subsequent "dirty barrel" shots, I have found the Holy Grail!!

For myself, it was loss of accuracy in my 25-06 that had me digging for an acceptable method of dealing with copper fouling. The first time I cleaned all that copper out, it was a job I didn't want to repeat. I then started applying my method to all my rifles.

For my puposes, a clean barrel is a know entity in a world of variables.

I like that a "World of Variables" No doubt that's what we have. Two rifles with two rifling methods. 22-250AI is a Mike Rock Cut rifled 5R BBL takes very little effort in cleaning plus doesn't seam to need fowling shots. 6 x284 is a Hart Button rifled BBL it takes a share of effort in cleaning and takes 3 to 5 shots to fowl properly. Yet their both factory lapped???????

It's the curse and the blessing for gun cranks!!

It's the challenge that draws our obsession and our ire...
Endless attempts to control the uncontrolable.

I guess we find satisfaction when we can coax that unique firearm to cooperate, just a little.