The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gun Cleaning Forum Hoppes No.9Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am having trouble cleaning my old military barrel. I have been using Hoppes No.9 with a nylon brush and the patches continuously come out a dark green. Should I continue this practise until the patches come out clean or is there a different regimen or product I should be employing to get the barrel clean  All suggestions will be appreciated. PS I live in South Africa and we do not have a large variety of cleaning solutions availible as in the USAlong with success comes a reputation for wisdom | ||
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If you can find any of the foaming bore cleaners they are great. Wipeout is one brand but there are others. You fill the bore with the foam and let sit for 20 minutes or so wipe the bore out with patches. Repeat as needed. If you cannot get ahold of foaming bore cleaner get any type of solvent specific to copper. Hoppes is not the best copper solvent. If you cannot find a solvent specific to copper you can use household ammonia to get rid of the copper. Just don't let it sit in the barrel to long and follow it up by plenty of Hoppes. Also you may find you will have layers of fouling. Copper over powder fouling. So get rid of the copper then use hoppes again then your copper solvent again until clean. But the easiest thing is the foaming bore cleaners if you can find them. | |||
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Hoppes 9 may have had the recipe changed recently according to the guys at City Guns in Capetown. They buy it by the barrel and decant it to sell on. They reckon the latest stuff has lower effectiveness. I leave Hoppes 9 (and Sweet's despite the directions) in the barrel over night, patch out and let soak again as it is usually a few days between shots for me. | |||
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The newer hoppes is not as good. But it never was the best tool for removing copper. | |||
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Hoppes is not supposed to be a good copper solvent, however, I'm breaking in a new 7mm Rem Mag (about 10 shots thru it so far)and if I let the Hoppes soak it for an hour or two, I get so much copper out that it forms almost a gooey green sludge on the patch (this is after one shot). It's a cheap gun, & maybe the barrel is rough & picks up a lot of copper fouling. Following up the Hoppes with a good copper solvent (I use Sweets) does not seem to get out much additional green- maybe a very light blue green coloring on the patch. The foams are supposed to be good copper removers, but about half the time, I back them up into my chamber & magazine, creating a hard to clean mess. When I follow the foam, Butch's Bore Shine, or Shooter's Choice with Sweets (my tried & true copper solvent - let's don't start debates please) I still get quite a bit of green on my patches . I always start with Hoppes #9 (tradition, I guess)& at least for the new cheap 7mm (not so much for my other guns) it is getting a lot of copper. You might try a good long soak wiht the Hoppes for several hours (turning the gun every now & then to distribute evenly) to see if that will get the copper out. You could probably home brew something like Sweets with a 3%-5% ammonia solution mixed with dishwashing soap until it's a little "thick". As previously posted, don't leave the ammonia in the barrel long (10-15 minute max per Sweet's instructions)& rinse it out with Hoppes followed by a light coat of oil. | |||
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The following web pages has lots of homemade solutions http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Bore%20Cleaner Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Eliscomin When you say you soak your barrel with Hoppes, do you mean you lube the barrel with a wet patch or do you plug it at one end and fill the barrel with Hoppes and soak it that way? Is the plugging and filling the barrel with Hoppes advisable? Along with success comes a reputation for wisdom | |||
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elis, to prevent the foam from getting into the bore, use your bore guide. If you don't have one, get one. It is a necessary piece of equipment for proper cleaning. I still find that Hoppe's is the best "finisher" for cleaning. So many others are just too harsh to leave in the barrel. As mentioned above, any amonia based product or a home brew with amonia will be the best bet for cleaning copper. What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public. | |||
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Hoppe's is a very mild cleaning agent that I like to use as a last wipe for a gun I'm putting up. Note: This doesn't refer to putting up a gun for LONG term storage, I'm referring to a year or so. If you think your bore is clean, wipe it with a patch wet with Hoppe's let it sit for a week and wipe it with a dry patch. You'll likely be surprised at what comes out. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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You got motor cars (and trucks) in S.A. or you still riding the zebras??? Ha, ha. Point: there are tons of "carburetor cleaners" that have the property of dissolving lead (from the old style gas) and copper and anything else bothering the steel. One match gun smith used to recommend one and I didn't write the exact name/number down... oh wellllll GM has an "upper cylinder" cleaner, spray in aerosol, that is supposedly exactly the same as Shooter's choice and much less risk of leaving the cap loose and losing it all to evap*. I would assume you can access Kroil or Marvel Oil or ??? Hoppe's was the kiddy stuff all along. Safe! Safe! Safe! Now if you want thorough cleaning. In US there is no end of suplus bore cleaners. The old corrosive stuff, outdoors please. Stink! But it worked. So I would direct you to large hardware stores and auto supply stores. Asks for something that cuts soft metals. Pettisol is a great carb cleaner, but you don't, as in DO NOT, leave a carb overnight. It will dissolve aluminum. !! Luck. | |||
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Kurly - I don't plug the barrel, just a well soaked patch run through once to get the surface good & "wet" Bear K - I have & use a bore guide, (it's a Stoney Point with the little "window" near the rear to apply solvents to patches) but the plastic tube on the foam can is a lot shorter than the guide - I might try extending the plastic tube with some surgical tubing or something of similar diameter to reach up into the chamber. Without the bore guide, I push the plastic tube up into the chamber & try to spray real slow, but still get foam backing up into the action area pretty often. | |||
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It doesn't matter if the tube is shorter than the guide. Just unscrew the solvent port and spray the foam down the bore guide until it fills the barrel. Let it sit there with the bore guide still in. Revove and wipe the inside of the bore guide when it's time to swab the bore. This will prevent any of the foam from getting into the chamber and action. What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public. | |||
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I know about carburetor cleaners. It's quite a job repairing carburetors after they have been 'cleaned'! It dissolves brass big time!!! Not so much aluminium. Regards 303Guy | |||
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Like Mike7mm08 said the foaming bore cleaners work great I use gunslick foaming bore cleaner with real good results. If you have copper fouling that they wont remove, the most powerful stuff I have used is Montana Extreme copper killer .50 BMG. You may have to move in with your neighbors for a few days after you open the bottle until the smell clears but it works. | |||
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I like Hoppe's. It smells good and reminds me of both of my Grandfatehers. I happen to have a couple of quarts of the old stuff. I was unaware of a change in the formula. It will get all the copper out of a bore, provided you are in no hurry. There is a post 64 Model 70 around here someplace that really peels the copper off Barnes bullets. It takes a week to get all the copper fouling out. Patching mornong and night. I guess I like to clean my guns. If you are in a hurry, don't like to clean guns, and are willing to use potetially harmful chemicals there are certainly better choices. | |||
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I miss speel check | |||
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Hoppe's is too weak for copper. Use Hoppe's in combination with a strong ammonia solvent like Barnes CR-10 for copper. | |||
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The original old Hoppes No.9 was not formulated to remove copper. It was originally a black powder solvent. The only way it would remove any copper is if it was loose and could roll out the barrel when you raised it. My first deer rifle was cleaned with nothing but Hoppes No.9 (when I was in my late teens) the barrel got so copper fouled that my G-smith just shook his head and re-barreled the damn thing with another M-700 he had laying around. Are you referring to Hoppes No. 9 or Hoppes Elite or the Bench Rest Copper formula. The latter two will remove some copper at the rate of appox. a millionth of an inch every in about a 24 hour period. Quite un-impressive. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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With much better products around it is hard to understand why Hoppes #9 is still around. That product was pretty much rendered useless years ago. Would imagine that the only reason it is still here is some of the older generation of shooters still use it because they don't keep up with the industry. | |||
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I am not kidding when I say this but Hoppe's smells good. If I am in doors with poor ventilation, I can use Hoppe's for the majority of cleaning and not get a headache or feel nauseated after. Using Butch's or Shooters choice indoors is a different matter. | |||
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Hoppes works exceptionally well for cleaning rifles that are shot very little each outing such as hunting rifles. A couple of patches through and a week later another couple of patches will take care of it. In most environments it will also protect from corrosion for a very long time. I have about 600 gun years that prove it works. | |||
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I use hoppes in my pistols to clean all the parts. It works great for the purpose because a heavy cleaner is not needed. Thats the only thing I use Hoppes on. | |||
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Oh come on - Hoppes still works, just like it always has. I'm not one for the latest concoction, some of which do work impressively but like others who still use it, I run a few wet patches of #9 and let it soak a day or two. Works fine and there's less risk of "cleaning damage" to my target rifles. Every few hundred rounds they get JB'd but in between, it's just boring old Hoppes. Mark "Greatness without Grace is mere Vanity" - Hank the Cowdog | |||
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Who says your use of a bore scope is of any value? Your reaction to the use of a scope is typical. Give a guy a scope and he will find flaws in everything. Look under your own finger nails with a scope and you will want to puke. And tell me what level of accuracy does it take to make you happy and what is the correlation between the copper you see with your scope and your performance in matches? I am very concerned with accuracy and I have quite a bit of money tied up in equipment, riles and the acquisition of such. I also have a large part of my time and life tied up in shooting. That part of my life I consider much more valuable than anything you can assign a dollar value to. The fact that you compete means nothing to those of us that have more fun than you. No matter how big you are there is always someone that can clean your clock Hoss. | |||
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You are right but it AIN'T you....I have been mentored by some of the best in the industry including HOF shooters and others and won a couple. I only started shooting in competitions a few years ago and have been shooting and hunting for 30 years prior to that. Do not think that using the proper tools and knowing how to use them to make a given firearm achieve its accuracy potential is a bad thing because it is not. Some of us will relentlessly pursue perfection in any given endeavor while others are satisfied on mediocrity. Think about it and get back to me later---you know I am right but I also understand you are comfortable in your level of expertise so be happy!!! Oh--BTW if you have never looked at a bore cleaned only with Hoppes #9 layered with carbon and copper then you are not looking down many tubes.  | |||
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It still smells GOOD | |||
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If you have never looked under your finger nails with a microscope you have a shock coming. No matter what, with enough magnification all you will see is something you will not like. Though you only started a few years ago you forgot to sign up for the humility classes. You can relentlessly pursue perfection all you want but try working on your character a little bit along the way. A little bit of relentless pursuit might go a long way there. Otherwise you are just engaged in the common equipment race that so many competitors fall into. In the mean time I am having a lot more fun. In the end fun is what it is all about. I have never said that using the proper tools is a bad thing. I suspect that I have far more of those tools than you since I have about a 20 year head start on you. I do not have any bore layered with carbon because Hoppe's given enough time will remove it. Try a little bit of patience. | |||
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As long as your Depends are dry you are happy!! I completely understand your point of view. Just because you are an old man means what ??????? If you do not scope your tubes (obviously you do not or you would have never made such an ignorant statement) and believe that #9 will remove carbon and copper fouling then just go along in your state of ignorant bliss and continue to hope the fiber does its job every day and keeps you regular. Age has nothing to do with being smart or experienced—just because you do something 1000 times means nothing if the task is performed incorrectly except that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. You can certainly believe what you want but my time is much better spent discussing a topic with someone who retains his or her respective cognitive abilities and is able to accept the fact that change that is good should in fact be embraced, rather than shunned because one is too old, cheap and or stupid to realize otherwise. | |||
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That it does and that's all that matters!  So what does all this mean in practice? Some folks have been known to clean their bores by using paper patched lead bullets containing jewellers polishing abrasives and some with just plain paper. Other like me have just used Hoppe's No9. My 303 Brit has always kept a bit of copper in the bore. It seemed to shoot pretty good. Now I want to switch to lead bullets and want the bore clean. I tried some cast bullets and they seemed to shoot good. I once got copper fouling in my hornet and that came out with Rapid-Tap. Since then it has not fouled but then I use a paper cup soaked in waxy-lube for seating. But, there was no difference in accuracy before the fouling, during the fouling and after cleaning it out! Regards 303Guy | |||
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hoppes #9 - perfume for gun nuts  | |||
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I will agree with that statement---wish they made candles scented like the old #9!! Doubt my wife would agree to let them burn in the house! | |||
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I guess some of us would still use it just for the smell and the memories but it works and that is the point. Whether there are newer and or better is another discussion entirely. I will always use #9 as first clean on a well soaked patch and then a second and leave to stand for 10 min. I do use CR10 for copper but would never be without #9. It is all I need for the 350gn cast lino GC at 2365fps in my 404 and every 50 rounds or so I will leave #9 in 24hrs because of the gas checks. Von Gruff. | |||
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I wipe down the ouside of my guns with Hoppes #9! But tell me more about 2365fps? That's not exacly 'mild'! What powder do you use if I may ask? What's the load density and any idea of pressure? A tad off topic I know but this is sooo interesting!  And 50 rounds before needing to use Hoppes? (Back on topic). Regards 303Guy | |||
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303 guy It's a practice load for recoil and quick reloads and its cheap, at least the cast bullets are compared to the 400gn Woodleigh's 74gn 2208 (varget) gets me 2365fps. It equates quite well to the 400gn Woodleigh's at 2300 and it is not meant to be mild, however for just a plain fun I load 63gn 2209 (H4350) behind the same cast lino bullet for 1900fps. This has shot into .33 of the bench at 55 yds with aperture sight. I clean with #9 every 20 - 25 shots but only use the CR10 every 50 shots or so. Von Gruff. | |||
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Wow! And AR2209 for a reduced load! Would that work for me in my 303 Brit? (With cast 220gr and 245gr bullets) I have been hesitant in trying it for fear it would need more pressure for consistant combustion. Regards 303Guy | |||
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Please explain originally a black powder solvent. All that I have seen has been labed nitro solvent, ie to remove deposits from nitrocellullose based powders, plus very mild copper cleaning. Yes there are better and faster products, but non smell as good. I think the original Hoppes 9 which contained nitrobenzene, a carcinogen, smelled and worked better than the current formulation. JJK | |||
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303 Guy I will move the powder discussion to cast bullets. Von Gruff. | |||
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Hobby Horse, It seems my character comment like everything else I have said is very accurate. Age and experience counts as long as you think you have the most of it. When you are one upped on age and experience then the other person's experience become irrelevant? Hardly. Chemical reactions take time. Give Hoppe's a little time and it will remove copper. I know how to use it and I suppose that you are too impatient to figure out how to make it work. Hoppe's has a long history of use cleaning rifle barrels while not doing any damage yet providing excellent protection from corrosion. I have tested 5 or 6 other cleaning products. None of them were an overall significant improvement over Hoppes. I have a lot of experience in machining and finishing of metal. You can give an inexperienced person a little magnification and they will go crazy finding defects that mean nothing. | |||
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Well good for you!! You are smarter than every single person who shoots competitively!! NEVER have I seen anyone who uses Hoppes for bore cleaning at a match (because they want to win)! Hoppes pretty much killed the product when it was reformulated 20 or 25 years ago. Keep the powder and the Depends dry my friend---ignorance is bliss  as they say so don’t worry be happy! | |||
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