A very excellent 257 Roberts which I bought this year has a Kreiger barrel. I've applied UBC a few months back. This barrel is acting differently than other barrels I've applied UBC to. It has some copper streaks in it near the muzzle and it won't come out. Three days of hitting it with several treatments of Barnes CR-10 has only dented the copper issue following the directions to the letter. No wire brushes please as it will ruin the UBC. I've used patches and nylon brushes only. I've used CR-10 for a number of years and it's always worked until now. Any one have any advice?

Alan

I'd give Wipe Out or Wipe Out Patch out a go.

No brushes required.

.

Alan I've got some KG-12 you could try. Hitch is you have to let me fondle them nice shootin irons you've been posting here.

KG-12 and Patch Out have been working for me but I've not got a bore scope to grave that statement in stone.

One of the problems is the layering issue...you might have read about it in the WO and other recent cleaning posts.

I'm guessing the "UBC"...has been layered on top of the rest of the "stuff".

"Tiger strips"...the copper streaks you see on top of the lands are just very thin copper washes...WO/PO will take those strips off if it can get under the other layering. I've tried just about every copper cleaning product on the market, as my cleaning supplies shelves attest, but WO/PO is the only one that would take off the tiger stripes with one or to applications.

A really clean barrel will always shoot differently than a "dirty" one that's why we get some fouling shots before going for the money shots....you already know this but sometimes in the heat of battle we are concentrating on whats in front while the boogy man jumps up behind us. Same thing with cleaning

All the Kreiger barrels I've shot have( with a very few exceptions) are really very smooth and don't require a lot of work to keep them shooting.

I think the old adage that "you can wear out a barrel faster by cleaning it, than by shooting it" fits very well...don't go nuts with the cleaning.

Use WO/PO following the small print...

CR-10 is good, I have a bottle I use off and on...try some TM, Montana Xtreme or some of the 50 BMG stuff or some of the Montana Xtreme Copper Creme paste...get a Sinclair Int catalog or go to the site, they have ALL the very best stuff.

No matter WHAT you fire down the barrel you will get some kind of residual combustion/coating product whether it be Moly, copper, or the other propriety bullet coating products and bullets...it layers up, most of it is hard to remove and no one product or procedure works all the time...you have to mix and match sometimes.

I'm working on a Swedish Mauser right now...I cleaned it when I first got it about 20 years ago, but have shot one case of that practice ammo through it, 1400 rounds, plus I don't know how many reloads. I thought I would give it another good cleaning last week and so far I have done 5 overnighters with WO plus accelerator, PLUS at least 3 PO runs each day intersperced with TM, Montana E, BBS, Pro-Shot IV, Hoppe's Copper solvent and shooters choice copper cleaner and scrubbing with a nylon brush.

The patches are still coming out black(carbon/powder residue) with a small amount of blue(copper) but each time not quite as black.

The tiger strips went with the first WO treatment and the bore is bright and shiney with the lands/grooves sharp...I DON'T know where the black is coming from but it is a usual occurance with a very dirty bore.

It might take another week or so of hard work to get it totally clean BUT I will bet a yankee dime it will take quite a few fouling rounds to get it to shoot well again.

You have to be careful tho', you can get a clean "final" patch...then scrub with a nylon/wire brush and come out with a totally black patch. The bore is only realy clean when a patch comes out clean AFTER a good brush scrubbing.

Sometime it is best to leave a good shooting bore alone other than a light coat of oil that gets wiped out before shooting again.

One last suggestion/thought...run an online search on bore cleaning...you will get an excellent education on the thoughts of how people think their shooters should be cleaned.

Luck

quote:

I DON'T know where the black is coming from but it is a usual occurance with a very dirty bore.

It's coming from the pores of the steel.

It is very hard to get totally clean, even after leaving the gun to sweat a bit.

Even on brand spanking new 5.56 Steyr's, we were still getting crap out weeks later
and these barrels were brand new.

Hence why I leave Hoppe's in and clean it 2 days later and keep doing it up to a point.

quote:

Originally posted by Nomo4me:
Alan I've got some KG-12 you could try. Hitch is you have to let me fondle them nice shootin irons you've been posting here.

KG-12 and Patch Out have been working for me but I've not got a bore scope to grave that statement in stone.

Well now, that is an interesting proposition. I'm in Utah county. Where are you? I'd be willing to let you drool over them while the KG-12 works it's wonders on my 257 Rob.

Alan

This is my secret:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewp...productnumber=243419

That's true, 500N...I know better and you're right. What I actually ment didn't quite come out like I phrased it.

On some of my military rifles that were near 100 years old it took a combination of half can or more of WO, copper cleaners, QuickSilver and shooting to get them cleaned up. Shooting a few rounds warms up the barrel and seems to break loose all the really old layers...they still bleed tho'.

As you clean old or well used shooters you will start to feel the roughness just ahead of the chamber from the stress/heat cracking that you didn't when you first start cleaning. This cracking is what is smoothed up when/if you use some of the "fire lapping" products or by fouling with a few shots, and is where most of the "bleeding out" happens.

Understand and remember that bore cleaning is INDIVIDUAL to each rifle...some clean up easy and some don't...some rifles have read the advertizing and believe it and some just blow it off(so to speak, pun intended )

I've had very few factory standard barrels except button rifled or hammer forged that cleaned relatively easy. The easiest were Lilja's, Kreiger, Hart, etc, that were hand polished benchresters or the few I lead lapped and each one had it's own preference...or seemed to anyway.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:

On some of my military rifles that were near 100 years old it took a combination of half can or more of WO, copper cleaners, QuickSilver and shooting to get them cleaned up. Shooting a few rounds warms up the barrel and seems to break loose all the really old layers...they still bleed tho'.
Luck

Aaaaahhhhh, warming up the barrel. Now that is another one. Heat barrel, clean it, cool it, heat it up again and reapply which ever powder solvent / copper remover you are using.
This is where I find the Wipe Out expanding foam gets into the pores really well and "lifts" the crap out of the pores.

(By "heat it up", I mean warm it up, not heat it with a flame !!!). I sometimes use a tea towel dipped in boiling water, then placed in a plastic bag and wrap this around the barrel and transfers the heat really quickly.

Sometimes I hate old guns !!! LOL

.

And get some Kroils in there too.

I'm in SLC.
You can have a half bottle of KG-12 I'm sitting on. It works great for copper - after you use the Carbon Cutter with a few strokes of a bronze brush to help keep the carbon ring in check.
I happened on a bottle of Patchout and will stick with it as it does everything the other system does in one bottle. Patchout is great stuff.

I clean in the furnace room so stay away from smelly solvent based cleaners that will be drawn into the heating system and smell up the house.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:

quote:

Originally posted by Nomo4me:
Alan I've got some KG-12 you could try. Hitch is you have to let me fondle them nice shootin irons you've been posting here.

KG-12 and Patch Out have been working for me but I've not got a bore scope to grave that statement in stone.

Well now, that is an interesting proposition. I'm in Utah county. Where are you? I'd be willing to let you drool over them while the KG-12 works it's wonders on my 257 Rob.

Alan

+1 on getting some Kroil in the barrel while it's still warm and the crud is soft(er).

My information is empirical but it certainly seems that if I run a couple of patches soaked in Kroil (or even Hoppe's) through the barrel before I leave the range, the rifles clean up better and quicker when I get home.

First, I'd like to say, "thanks for all the advice".

Second, I'd like to announce that the problem is solved. Turns out, the last dregs of my CR-10 had the ammonia evaporated and I was trying to get the copper out with just the CR-10 solvent. Instead of dripping CR-10 onto a patch, which to me, is a bit messy, I had instead started using a plastic pipet I obtain from Brownells. I would suck up CR-10 from the open bottle and when I was done, had absent mindedly left the bottom open, allowing the ammonia to evaporate.

I called Barnes and discussed this with them. They asked me to smell the last dregs of my old bottle. My head was still attached. So, off to Sportsman's Warehouse, new bottle; BAM! Copper came out quite quickly.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
...I called Barnes and discussed this with them. They asked me to smell the last dregs of my old bottle. My head was still attached. So, off to Sportsman's Warehouse, new bottle; ...