How long can one leave a rifle barrel without cleaning it before there is a problem?

My 375 does not shoot well until it has had 10 or 12 rounds through it.

I have left it uncleaned during entire safaris before. I found that if I clean it then take it on safari it will not shoot well until I have some crud built up in it

Could I leave it a month or two before cleaning it - what could happen?

Allen
Interesting question.
I clean my handguns every 1,000 rounds or so.
All of my rifle barrels get cleaned at the range prior to returning home.
Now the qualifying.
All of my rifles with the exceptions of the AR10s, 308 and Remington 25-06 are shot with cast bullets. These include 45 Colt, 45-70, 405 Winchester, 375 Whelen and 30-06. I have lapped all of these barrels so they are smooth and shiney. I use the same loads that are recommended in the loading manuals for the same weight jacketed bullet.
The only rifles that require 5 or 10 rounds to settle in, are the two jacketed bullet calibers.
I'm not sure there is any downside to not cleaning as long as you wipe down the parts subject to finger prints, rain, blood, etc.
Jim

quote:

How long can one leave a rifle barrel without cleaning it before there is a problem?

I might get burned at the stake for heresy, but I don't think there will be much of a problem.

I have a rifle like that (a Rem. Model 7 in .308) and just push a wet patch followed by a dry patch, before I intend to use it. I figure that way I'm getting rid of any loose 'green stuff' or other abrasives.

If I clean this one it shoots dinner-plate patterns. After a dozen rounds it eventually gets down to 1 MOA. As long as I treat it as above, it stays that way.

Logic tells me the bullets are slithering through there on copper to copper...I can't see how that could hurt anything. As long as they go where I want them to, I'm happy.
I figure the bolt handle will probably fall off long before the barrel wears out, so why baby it?

I would think a 375 would not go passed 3 rounds before LOSEING its accuracy.How yours can go 10 before it GETS accurate makes no sense to me.Any rifle,especially if your not shooting molly coated bullets, should be MOST accurate right after cleaning.Have all your rifles showed this occurance?

Allen,

You can leave your rifle uncleaned as long as you wish- provided you do not live in an area where humidity a salt in the air might cause corrusion.

You can pass an oiled patch through it when you wish to store it. Then dry it thoroughly before you shoot it again.

Like yourself, I never clean my rifle while on a hunt. The only time I do anything to it is if it gets wet for one reason or another.

As far as during hunting, I only clean mine if the weather conditions dictate the need, if it's dry, I won't clean the entire season, but if it's wet, it gets cleaned daily.

As far as accuracy and number of shots, that depends on the rifle. The two 100yd 3-shot groups below were the last few shots of a load work up string of 30 with no cleaning out of a new 375H&H TC Prohunter, the group on the left which measures .708" were shots number 25-27 with a near max load of N160 and the 270gr Hornady RN. The group on the right was ½gr more.

My handguns only get a powder scrubbing when the accuracy goes away. Usually a couple hundred rounds.
Rifles get cleaned after working up a load and then fowled till accuracy is there. 5 to 8 rounds usually.
When I get ready to hunt, I will wrap electrical tape over the end of the barrel to keep the s**t out of it. At night I take of the tape and, of course, unload the firearm. The bolt is left open to allow air to pass through the bore.

Palmer:

Absent a high humidity environment, indefinitely. Most hunting rifles don't settle down until a few fouling shots are fired, and I'm careful not to arrive for a hunt with a clean bore. When I do, I always fire a few foulers before hunting. You won't have any problems.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I manufacture and sell a copper solvent so I ought to push cleaning before the bullet leave the barrel. But that's impratical, as are most suggestions floated by so called experts and pundits.

A rifle will tell you when it's time to clean. That's the unvarnished truth. Unlewss you are a fanatic neat freak who cleans for the sake of cleaning, shoot and pay attention to your rifle, and then obey when it tells you to clean.

Yeah well, more barrels have been rooned by rust than wore out, or something.
Just reading a post here last night that pointed out all steel can rust even stainless.

So, when you don't clean your bore it is presumably UNprotected. Now this may not matter while your actually on a hunt, but shooting from home, I never know when or which rifle will be used next day, next week, next month, etc. So they get cleaned, or rather, soaked in Hoppies 9 whether they need it or not, whether fired or not. Takes about what?
maybe 2 minutes to push a wet patch through?

And as for not shooting when clean, there must be some funny rifles out there. EG my cheap Zustava couple days ago, 1st shot just where i wanted it, about 1 1/4 " high. 2nd shot making one hole, about 3/16". That would normaly do for my type of shooting with that rifle, but I had to do it didn't I. Third shot blew the group out to a wisker under 1/2 ".
Bugger.
So why would I take the "chance" of it rusting?

People get caught, mate had a Jungle carbine rust up bad. Silly sod had used some old corrosive primer ammo. See, bad habits.

My post wasn't as clear today as it was when I did it. What I mean is accuracy. It's not a good idea to shoot a rifle and then stand it in the corner until next time, which may be next year for most shooters. Cleaning is part of maintenece just like lubing and changing oil in a vehicle. It has to be done.

So this is the updated "Wisdom": While shooting, if acuracy drops off, clean. In the rifles I've owned, that ranged from 12 rounds up to over a 100.

If you are done shooting and you plan to store the rifle, even for a few days, clean.

Never store a firearm with a dirty bore. That's inviting trouble.

wrongtarget,a new barrel will group longer without cleaning because all its lands are there in full form to stabilize a bullet despite copper build-up,especially within a hundred yds.Obviously small or medium calibers can go longer without cleaning then magnums.I have observed many times on barrels that had a few hundred rds through them that at 200yds fliers as much as a foot would part from a half inch three shot group on the fourth shot unless I cleaned.At a hundred yds fourth shot fliers can part off six inches or so.Once I have thouroughly cleaned my rifle the first three shots are gauranteed to hit a quarter at two hundred yds on my best rifles.As for the fourth shot,I am not so sure.Here is my suggestion to YOU Palmer! Clean you bore with JB on a patch,on a brush(run back and fourth through the barrel 60X).Then remove all the JB with a patch soaked solvent and then a dry patch.Repeat the whole process.The rifle is now ready to shoot 5 hunting rds with good accuracy.After the rds are shot clean again useing the above process.To store the rifle after it has been cleaned for more than 3 days,I suggest you use a bore mop with Kelly lube instead of the oil and patch trick.Run through a wet mop back and fourth through the barrel until you see foam at the muzzle(about 10X).The mop will oil the bore everywhere and the jell like consistancy of Kelly lube will make sure it stays there.On the morning or night before the hunt,I will short stroke a solvent soaked patch through to remove oil,then follow with a dry patch,then repeat and end with a couple of short stroked dry patches.She is now ready.I take my cleaning rod along with my shooting tool box on all my hunting trips,and clean when I shot my rifle,and the day has ended.It's fun cleaning,especially when you had a couple of beers and just relaxing.

During deer season "cleaning" is limited to a wipedown and an oiled patch down the bore on Sunday evenings when I return from the camp.

I agree with belaw. I can't stand not oiling a fouled bore just to prevent rusting but I don't consider that a "cleaning" in a technical sense.

Some years back a competitive BR shooter told me to remove any residual bore oil with a wet Hoppes #9 patch immediately followed by two or three clean patches to remove the #9. He said the first shots out of that bore would (usually) shoot into the group. I have found it to work with my hunting rifles very well and the very thin residual of #9 still provides a little bore protection if it rains!

I ALWAYS run WD-40 on and through a rained-on rifle as soon as I get in and dry things out. Then I immediately remove the WD residue with a wet patch of #9. Next day, I repeat the #9 wet and dry patches in the bore before going out. Never lost game due to inaccuracy from over cleaning or an oily bore, never had any rusting.

Other bore cleaners may work as well as #9 for this use but I don't care enought to experiment and find out.

Well, here's a twist for you: I spoke with a man who has his own 'long range' shooting school, and he sells a specific long range rifle with HIS specific reticle in it. The system works and works well.

I specifically asked about his cleaning regimine, barrel break in, etc.

His reponse was "I go against the grain on that whole business." Meaning, he takes a new rifle, works up loads, shoots, shoots some more, and keeps on shooting. First cleaning is after about 200 rounds. BUT, this is a guy that will shoot 1000+ every year through the same rifle. He does clean if the rifle is to be stored. Otherwise, cleaning, to him, is nothing more than an annoying task now and then.

I don't know if he has a bore scope or not, but my position on that is it is neglect. I think someone who does that is asking for problems. Whether they occur or not is a gamble.

I'm a clean freak. If you took any one of my rifles out of my safe right now and took a bore scope to them, they'd look like the bores just got finished being handlapped.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have observed many times on barrels that had a few hundred rds through them that at 200yds fliers as much as a foot would part from a half inch three shot group on the fourth shot unless I cleaned.At a hundred yds fourth shot fliers can part off six inches or so.Once I have thouroughly cleaned my rifle the first three shots are gauranteed to hit a quarter at two hundred yds on my best rifles.As for the fourth shot,I am not so sure.

Bad barrels. Any barrel that starts throwing that wide after three fouling shots is ready for the tomato patch. Might be OK for informal paper punching, but any such barrel would certainly be worthless for a serious hunting rifle.

Palmer doesn't have a bad barrel, it just doesn't settle down until it's been fouled just a bit, which is common enough.

Seems a lot of folks are awfully nervous about bore corrosion. I've lived in a hot, extremely humid environment all of my life, although we ARE civilized here (we do have air-conditioning). I never clean a rifle after the final range session before a hunt, or before the start of our local hunting season, and I never clean my rifles during the season unless they get wet. Nor do I coat the bores with Hoppe's or anything else between hunts. I clean my handguns every few hundred rounds. My shotguns get cleaned only when they really need it. I still own all but a few of the guns I've bought over the last 40+ years, and not a one has ever had rust in the bore. For the last 15 years I've used double rifles ($20,000 a pop to re-barrel) almost exclusively for my hunting and still do it the same way. Doesn't make me nervous in the least. With 'smokeless propellants and modern non-corrosive priming compounds, excessive cleaning just isn't needed, and can actually be a bad thing.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

He might not be useing the right load or he might be useing a bad barrel.I 've never heard of a quality barrel that didn't shoot accuarate when clean.Ask any benchrest shooter and I am sure they will tell you the same thing.I would be crying if I bought a 20000 dollar barrel and it did not shoot accurate when it was clean.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
He might not be useing the right load or he might be useing a bad barrel.I 've never heard of a quality barrel that didn't shoot accuarate when clean.

gee-ZUZ, have you ever owned a rifle? What a howl!
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

You went from not knowing anything about guns,to owning a 20000 plus rifle and still not knowing anything about guns.

I inherited my father-in-law's snake gun, a .410. never cleaned, rust over about 25% outside of barrel. None inside I could see, but some nice big craters (pitting) in the chamber. Makes ya weep.

I just clean mine after every trip to the range. They will shoot about 50 rounds before accuracy falls off and I dont put that many rounds through it between cleanings.

I've been hunting in one form or another for 60 of my 67 years. No expert in hunting or guns but I have learned a few things.

One thing I've learned about things in general is that bare steel rusts, easily. A fired rifle bore has NO residual oil, it is bare so far as water vapor is concerned.

Bare metal need not be rained on to rust. Just as my table saw top will rust in my "dry" shop unless I give it some form of protection from humid air, my rifle's bore will rust unless I protect it.

One excellant young hunter I know, a son-in-law in fact, thought I was overly protective of my rifles. For several years he just came into the warm camp each cold evening and went back out each cold morning without serious concern for his rifle unless he had been caught in a rain.

We bought a new barrel for him a couple of months ago. His groups had gone bad and we found the original bore only showed a faint memory of where crisp rifling had once been. NOW he believes me, and has even bought himself a bottle of #9 and some new patches!

The boy's slow I guess but he can learn!

quote:

Bad barrels. Any barrel that starts throwing that wide after three fouling shots is ready for the tomato patch. Might be OK for informal paper punching, but any such barrel would certainly be worthless for a serious hunting rifle.

Palmer doesn't have a bad barrel, it just doesn't settle down until it's been fouled just a bit, which is common enough.

Seems a lot of folks are awfully nervous about bore corrosion. I've lived in a hot, extremely humid environment all of my life, although we ARE civilized here (we do have air-conditioning). I never clean a rifle after the final range session before a hunt, or before the start of our local hunting season, and I never clean my rifles during the season unless they get wet. Nor do I coat the bores with Hoppe's or anything else between hunts. I clean my handguns every few hundred rounds. My shotguns get cleaned only when they really need it. I still own all but a few of the guns I've bought over the last 40+ years, and not a one has ever had rust in the bore. For the last 15 years I've used double rifles ($20,000 a pop to re-barrel) almost exclusively for my hunting and still do it the same way. Doesn't make me nervous in the least. With 'smokeless propellants and modern non-corrosive priming compounds, excessive cleaning just isn't needed, and can actually be a bad thing.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

CAN I GET AN AMEN FROM THE CONGREGATION???

Yes, humidity or condensation will cause rust on a rifle both inside and out in short order.

If I am hunting in cold weather, once I take my rifle outside I try and find a way to leave it in the cold overnight, if possible.

If I bring it inside, this just means I have to dry it, wipe it down etc. to prevent rust from the condensation, which can appear overnight under the right conditions.

If I am worried that I will be hunting in the rain with one of my wood/blued rifles I pull the rifle apart from the stock and coat the unfinished areas of the stock with 2 or 3 very light coats of thinned linseed oil. I then degrease the outside of the barrel and any nonmoveable blued parts and give them a couple coats of automotive paste wax. Then I give the trigger spring etc. a quick spray with some silicon lube. The bolt and action I would clean with Hoppes #9 and then lightly oil as normal.

This has worked well for me.

However, once my rifle has been sighted in and fouled at the range I NEVER clean the bore unless something extreme happens - like the bore gets full of snow or such. Even then I just lightly wet the front section of a boresnake with a few drops of Hoppes #9 and run the snake thru about 5 times.

My hunting rifle bores sometimes go uncleaned for up to 4 months with no problems. If I do have to clean them that means I have to go thru the range shoot-in and fouling all over again.

I have also done an experiment where I left one of my rifles uncleaned for an extended period of time (2 to 3 years). I could clearly see some green "fur" when I looked down the muzzle end of the barrel from copper corrosion. Soaked a boresnake with Hoppes and ran it thru about 20 times - then dry patched. Don't know what the barrel looks like under a bore scope but accuracy was not affected one whit.

I have found that right after cleaning - no matter how much I dry patch one of my rifles it will throw fliers of up to 8" with a clean bore.

One of my rifles needs about 20 fouling shots before the groups tighten up to their best.

Each rifle is an individual and will tell you when to clean and how often for best accuracy, if you pay attention.

If you don't believe me read what Master highpower shooter Randolph Constatine says in his book, "Modern Highpower Competition".At one point he is talking about the benefits of moly coating and how he can go up to 60, 308 rds without cleaning before accuracy falls off,but before moly, going as many rds was UNHEARD OF.We are not talking 308 here.We are talking big bore, where fouling is much more severe.

This is an interesting subject. If we disregard any concern for rust, (which in some climates is a concern, but not everywhere) and we assume a typical factory tube if there is such a thing, one might assume that you could shoot hundreds of rounds before great concern for lost accuracy was reached. I have a .270 Winchester that I have not cleaned in 2 seasons, the barrel is not rusted that I can tell, but you can see copper on the lands, but it shoots just fine with over 100 or so rounds through it. I am not really inclined to clean it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy P Coaltrain:
I am not really inclined to clean it.

You will have little gremlins digging away under the copper coating and bigger ones hiding under the lumps of powder fouling. I don't know how you can sleep at night.

I shot a Ruger 10/22 13,000 rounds without cleaning the barrel. I had to wipe some of the fouling out of the action and squirt some lube in. It still hit rabbits just fine.

13,000 rounds. Wow. Thats encouraging.

After reading everyones posts I have a new plan for this rifle. I think I will just keep shooting it for a few weeks then I am going to clean it a couple weeks before safari.

Then go shoot a dozen rounds for practice off sticks just to dirty it up - then pack it without cleaning.

Thanks everyone for your ideas and experience.

Have you actually compared the impact difference between clean and dirty? The biggest difference that I have seen is .5" between clean and fouled. That is not enough to worry about hunting. Makes a little difference in a bench match.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I would think a 375 would not go passed 3 rounds before LOSEING its accuracy.How yours can go 10 before it GETS accurate makes no sense to me.Any rifle,especially if your not shooting molly coated bullets, should be MOST accurate right after cleaning.Have all your rifles showed this occurance?

It's not uncommon for a rifle to need numerous shots through it before it begins to stabilize and produce good accuracy.

If it works, go for it. In other words, if a rifle wants to be shot without cleaning before it produces good accuracy, then don't clean it.

Every rifle is an individual. Some shoot best clean and some others shoot best dirty.

quote:

Originally posted by Palmer:
13,000 rounds. Wow. Thats encouraging.

Then I cleaned it and sold it.

I often shoot 500 or so rounds of .223 without cleaning.

Some guys do more harm to their guns by cleaning them than they would by leaving them dirty.

I only scrub the bore when accuracy starts to drop off. Otherwise, it just gets a shot of oil and that's it.