Hey guys,

I was just wondering how often to clean my rifles. How long does it usually take for accuracy to start to deteriorate. I shot 50 rounds through my 30-06 today and really didn't notice a decline in accuracy. DO you guys clean at the range? After how many shots?

thanx,
Mark

Like you, I never clean at the range, but I never shoot more than 20 rounds with each rifle.

I too leave my cleaning rod at home. I do however clean after EVERY range session when I get home, whether I`ve fired 1 or 100 rds.

Clean when the rifle was shooting very accurately and then suddenly it stops.When it stops depends mostly on the caliber or cartridge you are shooting.It could be 3(7mmRM,300WM and the big bores) shots or 60 shots(308 molly).Only when all the copper is removed(use JB on a brush) will it be accurate again.You MUST bring the rod to the range.I suggest you also clean after you get back from the range and had a couple of beers.

Want to hear something sacrireligious? I'm quickly converting to not cleaning at all. Some of my varmint rifles have many hundreds of rounds through them since they have been cleaned last. I'll wipe off the outsides, actions and leave the bores alone unless there is a good reason too, like getting wet. I spent a couple decades scrubbing barrels for nothing, only to need fouling shots to get the rifle shooting again. Heavily fouling barrels that won't shoot dirty aren't worth preserving.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Clean when the rifle was shooting very accurately and then suddenly it stops.When it stops depends mostly on the caliber or cartridge you are shooting.It could be 3(7mmRM,300WM and the big bores) shots or 60 shots(308 molly).

Any barrel that will only shoot accurately for 3 shots between cleanings is worthless, and there's no point in cleaning it at all. It's a tomato stake.

quote:

Only when all the copper is removed(use JB on a brush) will it be accurate again.

I can understand using abrasives like JB in an effort to salvage a rough bore, and perhaps in a new bore during break-in, but regular use of abrasives in a fine barrel is just nuts. Abrasives aren't required to remove copper fouling, nor nitro fouling, and never have been. You're sanding away a lot of barrel life for nothing. You've claimed on these boards that you shot out a 7mm Magnum barrel in 70 rounds, and more recently a .458 Lott barrel in a similar number. Properly cleaned and cared for, quality barrels in those calibers last for thousands of rounds, not less than 100. You need to get a clue, and learn how to clean a rifle.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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I disagree with you and invite you and others who see things this way,to a 100yd shooting contest.I'll let you shoot off the bench and I'll be shooting offhand.We each fire three rds and see who shoots closest to center.I feel fully confident, in riscking humiliation, to go up agaist someone who does not use JB and believes rifles don't shoot better when their bores are clean.

Shootaway,
You should show up for one of your challenges, instead issueing them and finding excuses. You also may want to quit drinking.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I disagree with you and invite you and others who see things this way,to a 100yd shooting contest.I'll let you shoot off the bench and I'll be shooting offhand.We each fire three rds and see who shoots closest to center.I feel fully confident, in riscking humiliation, to go up agaist someone who does not use JB and believes rifles don't shoot better when their bores are clean.

I guess it's not nice to laugh at retards, but ol' Shotaway exceeds all limits.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

An answer to the original question: I shoot an AK maybe 50 times at a session. I shoot a bolt rifle 20-30 times , 50 with a 1911 and 6. with a BFR ALL are cleaned before they are put to bed. With a good conscious putting 500! Rounds down all but the bolt is doable Provided the ammo and the desire and the only reason that I would clean the bolt rifles before 500 is that there IS some accuracy degradation @ 1000 yards after 50 rounds, or is it that I am dog tired?!!

Abrasives is a word that encompasses a WIDE spectrum of partials from 100,000 mesh industrial diamond to “rocks†of aluminum oxide and more. So to lump them all together and say that they are bad for your bore is not wise.
Scrubbing copper out of a bore is not wise! I will not go into the details because I have better things to do but I will say that the copper is not evenly distributed and so there are bare spots and heavy spots, you decide how that might be a problem or not. I dissolve copper with bore foam and scrub some of the remaining carbon with a clay in oil slurry that has a very small quantity of diamond media that is used in the final polishing of hard drive platters. My 308 has more than 1000 rnds through it and no appreciable ware.

tagged so I can find it

I am having accuracy issues with a rifle. We will see if cleaning it will solve my problem.

As my USMC PMI would say "how often should you wipe your ass"?

quote:

Originally posted by Markhpb:
Hey guys,

I was just wondering how often to clean my rifles. How long does it usually take for accuracy to start to deteriorate. I shot 50 rounds through my 30-06 today and really didn't notice a decline in accuracy. DO you guys clean at the range? After how many shots?

thanx,
Mark

I shoot NRA HighPower rifle matches. I have never seen anybody clean there rifle during the match. We shoot between 66 and 110 rounds depending on the match, with the longer ranges (either 600 or 1000 yards) being shot last. I have not noticed accuracy degrading in my rifles (223 AR-15, 308 40X Palma, and 30-338 700) late in the match. I actually hate to clean rifles and shot more than one match without cleaning the bore and shot fine.

Break in the barrel and you should never have problems firing 50 rounds without cleaning the bore.

cleaning one should be less about decline in accuracy and more about respect for ones rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
cleaning one should be less about decline in accuracy and more about respect for ones rifle.

Agreed, HOWEVER, this can be taken to the extreme. 400 Nitro Express is correct, any barrel that requires cleaning after 3 or 4 shots is worthless.

I was an auto parts store manager early in life before I got burned out on retail.
I would see these guys come in, buy $3.50 a quart synthetic motor oil, the most expensive filter they could find and change it every 2000 miles. This was back when regular name brand oil was $.79 a quart. They would "justify" changing their oil this often as preventative maintenence.

After seeing these guys come in month after month, I worked up what a new motor cost (350 Chevy crate motor was less than $1000 then) VS. how much they spent on oil every 2000-3000 miles.

At 100,000 miles, buying a new motor was cheaper than their oil change regime. They could have changed it 10 times with regular oil and put a new engine in cheaper. And how much of their life would they have saved?

By the way---I have used JB for many years (both the cleaner and the polish). I have never personally seen or heard of a barrel shooting WORSE after using it. I have seen and heard of MANY that shot better after its use. Some much better.

Your experience may vary...

in semiautomatic gas operated guns that are kept at the ready they must be cleaned on occasion to refresh the lubricant as well as to refresh the the mind w/ the procedure.
in bolt guns i dont see a need to do anything other than brush out and clean the bolt face then remove powder residue from the BBl. i dont own a rifle that currently NEEDS the copper scubbed. a chore i figure should be done near the 500 round mark.
i dont bother doing much to shotguns other than a boresnake w/ a little solvent on it.
pistols are a different animal totally.
pistols are kept for dire situation ONLY and must be kept in a continual state of ready.

KSTEPHENS,
What are you going to do in Iceland?

How often? And How...Depends on the gun.

My smith 625 revo? Every 500 rounds or so. It' starts to keyhole around 600 rounds with soft lead reloads.

My Rifles? Action cleaning has become more important to me than bore cleaning. I'll push a lightly oiled patch down the bore, but that's about it. For the action, I've found that range shooting seems to gum up the bolt a tad after 50 rounds. Dunno why, but it does.

My AR? Pffft. Dunno. Every 500 rounds I suppose...

Over time I've become convinced that bores just don't need to be scrubbed clean anywhere near as much as I used to.

I had a .22 LR Smith pistol - I spent a day at the range intentionally seeing how long it would take before accuracy dropped off. Around 1200 rounds.

Oh, and the first three rounds out of a freshly cleaned bore are worthless to me. A slightly fouled bore has always shot better for me.

quote:

Oh, and the first three rounds out of a freshly cleaned bore are worthless to me. A slightly fouled bore has always shot better for me.

That's the rule that I have all ways followed.

quote:

Originally posted by solvi:
KSTEPHENS,
What are you going to do in Iceland?

I thought I would go back into law enforcement.

with only one percent of the population of iceland being black it should be an easy job.

Yes, I know the fella.
Hi´s not in the crime business

I clean every 5 rounds or until the barrel is pretty smooth and does not foul. usually by the time the barrel has between 100 and 200 rounds the bluing inside is gone and I quit cleaning it until at least 20 rounds have gone through it. I rarely shoot anything more than 40 rounds per trip but I usually have several rifles to shoot also.

Well, I suppose there are a few answers on this, but here's what we do. We'll clean bores if:

- accuracy begins to deteriorate during the course of normal practice
- we're going to be testing loads
- we're shooting something that we know fouls a lot
- we feel like it

Most of the time, a range session will end with an oily patch sometimes preceeded by some Shooter's Choice to clean out the major gunk. Only once in a while will Sweet's or JB get used to minimize the chances of doing something detrimental to the bore.

On the other hand, if it's a .22, we shoot the damn thing till the stock falls off! It seems they shoot better for us when they're a little grungy.

I finally had to clean my .416 yesterday after the groups opened up to 3 inches. This startling developement happened somewhere between 700 and 800 rounds. It's back to MOA so I suppose it'll be good for another year?

Some additional observations...

1. There are some barrels that shoot about as well with a cold clean barrel as with a fouled one. In fact, I think the reason the first few shots are wild in a lot of barrels is because the cleaners thereof leave a coating of oil in the bore. Don't do that; it's bad for the barrel. If you use a solvent for the final few passes like Microlon Gun Juice or Prolix that dries completely, you will be a lot less likely to get the first few wild shots.

2. In bench rest shooting, I've seen shooters clean after every shot and some that clean after a 5 shot string. I used to clean with Shooters Choice (not a good product to leave in the barrel though) after every 5 shot string. Accuracy did not suffer though there were no fouling shots before the next string.

3. At the last Safari Club Internation convention, I attended a gun cleaning seminar by Mr. Jarrett. If you haven't heard of him, you need to expand your horizons. He seemed of the opinion that cleanings should occur at somewhere less than 20 rounds through the bore. He also said that too infrequent cleaning could leave tightly adherent material in the bore at the proximal end of the barrel that could be extremely difficult to remove. He also said a bunch of other interesting things too extensive to go into here.

quote:

Oh, and the first three rounds out of a freshly cleaned bore are worthless to me. A slightly fouled bore has always shot better for me.

I have to shoot five or six foulers to get mine back into the small circle...

Something I wrote on another board....


Welll, the ol'e "how often and with what" question.

I'm another Hoppes guy and will be at least untill the quart I have runs out.

Once upon a time, a long long time ago, ammo was corrosive and barrell steel rusted easily. You could take the measure of a man by how clean his barrels were.

Now days ammo is clean, steel is of better quality and an often shot gun might just shoot better if the barrel isn't cleaned. Heck, the benchrest guys will shoot till the group start to open, clean the barrell and fire 3-5 shots to get it dirty again.
I sometimes shoot a contest where the first shot is from a cold bore. No one in his right mind starts with a CCBS(Clean Clod Bore Shot). We clean and shoot 4 or 5 foulers the previous day so we have a DCBS(Dirty Cold Bore Shot).

I guess, to me anyway, It seems like a barrell wearing out from overcleaning is a bit more likely than wearing out from under cleaning.

That brings us to cleaners. Unless you are a competitor there is no point in buying high dollar agressive cleaners for day to day use...
Unless you want to.