For any other Krieger barrel owners: assuming the barrel is broke in, how many shots can you make before you start seeing copper fouling, particularly at the muzzle area?

Also, How often do you clean and when or at what point?

When I shoot my Palma rifle w/ 30" Krieger barrel, 308, in a weekend match concisting of some 75rnds on Saturday, similar round count on Sunday, I do not clean it other than running wet patches of Hoppe's No.9 down the bore and let it remain for a bit, say 25-30minutes, then dry patch on Saturday eve. After Sunday's match, do more cleaning with Hoppe's and leave it in the bore for the 3-5hr drive back home.
I then dry patch out the remaining Hoppe's, and run two to three wet patches of Sweet's in and let it sit some 10-15 minutes and will get a slight blue tint. This barrel has a round count of over 3000rnds and gets quite hot during such a match and there is throat erosion taking place, but still delivers very good accuracy from 600-1000yds. Krieger's are excellent barrels and most likely this one will not make it to 4000 before accuracy drops off, but when you consider the barrel is worked a lot and gets hotter than you can touch with bare hand, it gives good service. I have a new one in the cabinet ready to be chambered and installed when needed. I shoot exclusively Sierra MK bullets and hear that some mfg. of bullets leave more copper than others but don't know that for a fact???

Thanks for your reply MFD. I have just recently had a Krieger put on a rifle. I went through "their" break in procedure. Now after about 20 rounds I see copper around the muzzle. I only have appox. 50 rounds through the barrel and fouling appears to be decreasing. Accuracy is not quite there yet like I am expecting. But will keep working on that.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
Now after about 20 rounds I see copper around the muzzle.

How did you determine that the copper wash at the muzzle was 'fouling?'

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
Now after about 20 rounds I see copper around the muzzle.

How did you determine that the copper wash at the muzzle was 'fouling?'

The 2 shot groups went from 3/8" w/no copper at the muzzle or barrel to 1-3/8" with the same loads and copper coloring at the muzzle. And that started appox. 12 to 16 shots after a good cleaning with solvents and Wipe Out as a final.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
For any other Krieger barrel owners: assuming the barrel is broke in, how many shots can you make before you start seeing copper fouling, particularly at the muzzle area?

Also, How often do you clean and when or at what point?

I have shot two 60 (66 rounds with sighters) round prone matches without cleaning the barrel with my .308. It is a Krieger barrel. No accuracy problems at all. Very little copper in the barrel when I cleaned it.

If you are losing accuracy after say 15 rounds, then you have little choice but to clean your rifle every 15 rounds. Each barrel is gonna be different. It should get better as you shoot it more. Or you might want to consider a different bullet.
I don't know what the Krieger's "break in" method is as I don't believe in that stuff anyway but you can start using some JB paste as part of your cleaning procedure.
When I get a new barrel or rifle, I give the bore 500 (that's right) strokes with JB paste before firing it. (most of the time)
There has been several firestorms about whether or not JB does any good or not. I believe it does and that my rifles clean up quicker after the JB "treatment. The slicker the barrel, the less it's gonna grab copper.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
How did you determine that the copper wash at the muzzle was 'fouling?'

What else could it be?

Anybody???

"I have shot two 60 (66 rounds with sighters) round prone matches without cleaning the barrel with my .308. It is a Krieger barrel. No accuracy problems at all. Very little copper in the barrel when I cleaned it."

Did you break in the barrel...if so how??

"When I get a new barrel or rifle, I give the bore 500 (that's right) strokes with JB paste before firing it. ""

After that do you just shoot it or clean after so many rounds? Curious about this. A friend has a Krieger barrel that fouls after a couple of rounds and it's a fairly new barrel. I may get him to try the JB treatment.

It's fouling near the muzzle but we're not sure about the rest of the barrel...can't see down it.

Have been using Krieger barrels for sometime now and find that there is little fouling/copper wash problems with them. Have been told that the copper wash is first generated when the bullet enters the rifling and as you shoot more rounds it migrates up the bore/muzzle. Also told long time ago that the first third of the bore is the area where one should apply the JB compound, polishing agent, etc. for that is the area which generates the copper wash you see at the muzzle when it occurs. The throat of the barrel/bore is the most violent area and the bullet is first introduced to the bore and if it is "rough" there you have a copper/fouling problem. Krieger has a break in program as many do, but for some years now found that one 75 round match and the barrel is broken in and a good cleaning practice after that is all that is needed. Just my experience.

On my barrel, I can feel the patch go through a rough spot near the throat and appox. 4 inches up then it generally gets smooth up to about 3 inches from the muzzle. It eventually smooths out after several strokes with solvent but still has the copper fouling.
It does seam to take less effort as more shots are fired.

quote:

"I have shot two 60 (66 rounds with sighters) round prone matches without cleaning the barrel with my .308. It is a Krieger barrel. No accuracy problems at all. Very little copper in the barrel when I cleaned it."

Did you break in the barrel...if so how??

Cleaned it after 2 shots, cleaned it again after 3 more, cleaned it after 5 more, and that was about it.

quote:

After that do you just shoot it or clean after so many rounds? Curious about this. A friend has a Krieger barrel that fouls after a couple of rounds and it's a fairly new barrel. I may get him to try the JB treatment.

I then just shoot it and let it tell me when it needs to be cleaned. I've shot matches and not cleaned at all but I've a super accurate factory rifle that needs to be cleaned about every 10 rounds.
Understand that the groups open up just slightly but enough to lose a match. In real world shooting, the difference would be insignificant. It still cleans up quickly: a couple of patches of Butches, a couple of clean patches, a shot of brake cleaner, a little oil and it's ready to go again.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
I went through "their" break in procedure. Now after about 20 rounds I see copper around the muzzle. I only have appox. 50 rounds through the barrel and fouling appears to be decreasing. Accuracy is not quite there yet like I am expecting. But will keep working on that.

I've owned 5 Krieger barrels in 3 calibers. I initially break them in a little more than you described but, not alot more. Most of the time they shoot their best after 200 rounds or so cleaning well after each shooting session.

The worst fowler (although it still was not bad compared to most barrels)was chambered for the highest velocity round using bullets with long bearing surfaces(6.5 x 284 ~2900 fps). I switched to molly coated bullets and that solved the problem.

With a 6.5x284 barrel life being short (1400 rounds for best accuracy) you just don't have the luxury of letting round count and cleaning sort things out.

I'm now using KG 12 in all my barrels to remove copper. I've tried Sweets, shooters choice, Butches Bore Shine, GM top engine cleaner, Bore tech eliminator and JB bore paste on various occasions. KG 12 is superior to them all in terms of results for effort invested.

Ammoloader, what do you use to clean out the
KG-12? Do you use any of their other products as they recommend?

I dry it well with patches then go to one short stroked patch soaked with some good medium weight gun oil. I currently am using a bottle marked "Beretta" that came with a shotgun.

My general procedure: After cleaning out the carbon with Butches and drying, I make ~10 round trip passes with KG12 wetted nylon brushes. I let it soak for ~15 minutes before patching the KG 12 out, drying and applying the oil mentioned above The nylon brush seems to be more effective than just using cotton patches......This usually gets the barrel completely clear of fowling and copper and as a result, it takes 2-3 fowling shots to get back to zero....

If you have what you think is a problem with that barrel, you should go to the manufacturer with it rather than an internet forum. Krieger would be very interested to hear about and more than likely anxious to inspect that barrel if it is not working right.


You might also want to read this:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/...ing-c1246-wp2558.htm

This is one of the manufacturers of match grade barrels who still provide a "break in" procedure because of customer perceptions. The most cogent barrel "break in" advice I ever got was from a well known hall of fame BR shooter who told me to form the first match's brass in it--clean it like in a match --7 to 15 rounds at a time-- and it will be more than broken in.

Words to live by.