Not sure how y'all treat copper fouling, but I got a bad case in a browning a-bolt .338 that get s a steady diet of TSXs. I look down the muzzle and see shiny streaks of copper. I clean with pro shot copper solvent, or bore scrubber, first by brushing then with patches, no change. I try patches with solvent and soak ten minutes, then scrub and more patches, no change. I've cleaned several times now with no change.

Any ideas? Or should I forget about it?

Wipe Out/Patch out with their accellerator will get that problem taken care of. They also make a foaming bore cleaner(I have not tried it).
I have tried everything for copper fouling and the Wipe Out/Patch out works better than anything I have tried.

Definately try GS Custom's M98 bore cleaner. Removes ALL copper fouling.

Your bronze scrubbing brush isn't helping. Plastic brushes with something other than bronze to apply copper solvent. Otherwise do the J-B routine or put up with WO mess. Search this forum and you'll get exhaustive input...

I own several Brownings and their bores are usually really good. Here's my cleaning regimen to get the copper out. I use a Sinclair or Possum Hollow cleaning rod guide, nylon or bronze brushes, MPro7 or Hoppes Elite gun cleaner (to remove the surface carbon to expose the copper), Wipe Out and Patch Out and a plastic ziplock sandwich bag (a 16 ounce plastic soda bottle will work too if your barrel isn't too large in diameter.

First, spay some Mpro7 or Hoppes Elite gun cleaner down the barrel, run a brush through the bore 4-5 times to loosen up any carbon/fouling and patch dry.

Run two patches soaked in Patch Out through the bore. Then place the ziplock sandwich bag or soda bottle over the muzzle, spray Wipe Out from the breech end which has the cleaning rod guide inserted. A couple short bursts is all it takes and you will see the white foam coming out the muzzle. Place a patch into the open end of the cleaning rod guide to keep foam from leaking out and onto your stock.

Lay the rifle on one side horizontally on a level surface. After a couple hours turn the rifle over to the other side. Then leave it sit til bedtime. Patch it dry and shine a flashlight down the muzzle of the barrel to see if you can see any copper. If you do see copper, reapply the Wipeout and Patch Out as described and go to bed.

In the morning, patch it dry and shine a flashlight down the muzzle again looking for copper fouling. That should do it. If not, reapply the Patch Out and Wipeout and let it sit all day, then check it again.

The beauty of this process is you're not scrubbing the bore like crazy with a brush, your wife won't complain because of the smell and you're not worrying about etching your barrel with ammonia based products. Wipe Out/Patch Out is safe to leave in your barrel overnight. I've yet to find a rifle barrel of any brand which Wipe Out and Patch Out won't clean.

The reason I rotate the gun during the first application is because the foam will turn to liquid and gravity will pull it to one side of the barrel. Sometimes when it's really fouled, I can see the solution removed the copper from one half of the barrel but not the other because it didn't get enough dwell time due to gravity. Rotating the rifle helps prevent this. Hope this helps.

I filed these cork screws down(one on the right) to fit my 500NE muzzles and chamber mouth.I will use them next time I clean the bores with wipe-out foam cleaner.
[URL= ]solvent stopper[/URL]

Sep's advice regarding MPro7 (Hoppes Elite) is a good one against carbon fouling.

For copper fouling there is nothing more efficient than Robla Solo, just short of abbrasive cleaners like Iosso and JB's bore paste.

Forget about all the Wipe Out and other stuff.

What you need to do is be more stubborn than the copper fouling. I have a Rem model 7 that collects copper or guilding metal. Lots of stuff works. I like Hoppe's No 9. It takes days to get it all. One wet and wait, follow it with dry later in the day. Morning and night, day after day. I like the smell of No9 and don't mind messing with my guns.

Thanks all. Two runs of J&B (I happened to have some but didn't think to use it), still seeing streaks but not as bad. Will look into some of others...

My Ruger #1 in 458 Lott coppers up in a shot or two with Hornady bullets both DGX and Interlock. I have not tried other brands of bullets so I can not say if its rifle or bullet. I have tried just about all cleaning stuff. JB, patches and elbow grease are the only things that get it all clean! It shoots good even with copper lands! How clean does it have to be?

The solvent after a few runs of J&B seems to have done it. But as was pointed out, it took A LOT of scrubbing. Thanks All.

Just remember that the bullet fouling is deposited in layers and you will get powder fouling in between also in layers.

After 20 years of trying Shooters Choice, Butch'e boreshine & other stuff I have now settled on Wipeout Patchout with Accelerator & alternated with carburetor cleaner from a local auto shop. That does the job well now. The first application is usually left over night or for a few hours at least.

Yes JB works but needs a lot, a lot Yes a lot of scrubbing .... and you still get streaks.

Try KG-12 it is made for artillery and is by far the most effective copper remover you can buy!

http://www.coretacsolutions.co...cts_KG_KG12_TEST.htm

My copper removing process uses no brushes, only flannel patches cut to fit firmly in the barrel when wet with solvent.

1. Run patch of Hoppes No 9 down the bore, and then dry patch.
2. Run patch with Sweets down barrel, and then dry patch.
3. Run patch if Oisso (sp?) bore paste, then dry patch.

If copper remains, repeat steps 2 and 3 one more time.

4. Run a patch of Hoppes No 9, to clean any remaining Oisso, and dry patch.

5. Run patch with oil down barrel, and dry patch.

For each solvent and dry patch, I run the patch back and forth, 20 times.

It takes longer to describe it, than it does to do it, and it works pretty well.

My 25-06 will almost always have copper in the barrel. But, there comes a time when it must be cleaned, and re-coppered!! This process works well for me.

Break Free Bore Cleaning Foam is by far the best product I have used - it is even better than Wipe Out / Patch Out, and it requires almost no effort to get all of the copper out of your bore. It does take a bit of time however as you have to let the foam sit in the barrel for about 20-30 minutes for each application. You then just use a dry patch to clean out the bore and re-apply foam as required until all the copper is gone. Even in severely fouled bores, I have gotten bores totally clean with 3 applications. It usually only takes 2.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Break Free Bore Cleaning Foam is by far the best product I have used - it is even better than Wipe Out / Patch Out, and it requires almost no effort to get all of the copper out of your bore. It does take a bit of time however as you have to let the foam sit in the barrel for about 20-30 minutes for each application. You then just use a dry patch to clean out the bore and re-apply foam as required until all the copper is gone. Even in severely fouled bores, I have gotten bores totally clean with 3 applications. It usually only takes 2.

That is good to know -thanks.I see this stuff is also available in Canada at lower cost than what I paid for wipe-out.I know you use a borescope.

Wipe Out foam is very complicated to use properly. Fill 'er up, leave overnight, clean out with a couple of dry patches. Couldn't be easier or more effective.

If you want a good aerobic workout that's quicker than WO, as part of your copper cleaning, scrub the pizz out of it with Bore Tech eliminator. Great stuff.

cr-10 is very good.

Shootaway,

do you use a bore scope to check the entire length of the barrel when cleaning it?

Have you noticed that prem or match grade barrels don't fowl as easy or easier to clean?

Favorite brand of barrel as far as the easiness of cleaning?

Listen to The Dane.

KG-12 is at least ten times better than anything else. Three five minute soakings will take care of almost anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Shootaway,

do you use a bore scope to check the entire length of the barrel when cleaning it?

Have you noticed that prem or match grade barrels don't fowl as easy or easier to clean?

Favorite brand of barrel as far as the easiness of cleaning?

Norseman,
No I do not use a borescope.I check the bore at the muzle end with my eye for copper and have always used JB on a patch on a brush.Yes premium barrels are easier to clean becuase they don't pick up alot of copper in the beginning-at least in 308 win caliber.I like Kriegers.

If you don't use a borescope, you really have no idea how clean your barrel is.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
If you don't use a borescope, you really have no idea how clean your barrel is.

That is true but if it shoots to your satisfaction then how clean it is, is not important.

I suspect that you do see color in your bore, but I also suspect your bore is clean regardless..Squeeky clean isn't necessary, it's annal...what you see is wash an probablu in pores below the metal line I'm told. Its not problematic.

However, if your bound and determined to remove every last minute sign of copper then take a quart jar of 20% commercial ammonia, add one cup of Hydrogen Peroxide to it and toss a penny in it for blue color, last step isn't necessary but it is traditional..Swab your bore and let set for no more than 20 minutes, check the bore and in severe cases may need two or three applications.

This stuff is called "Blue Goop" and has been used by target shooters for ions, its strong and quick and cheap to mix.

WARNING: DO NOT LEAVE IN BORE, AND BE SURE AND CLEAN YOUR BORE COMPLETELY, I USE HOT SOAPY WATER, DRY IT COMPLETELY AND OIL PROFUSELY AND PUT IT AWAY...When ready to shoot dry it again and fire some fouling shots. I may or may not do this once a year, and usually on my rockchuck rifles that may get fired several hundred times a day.

Probably more of a concern should be that more barrels are ruined by cleaning rods than shooting. I use bore snakes year around and a rod cleaning once a year.

I endorse the comments of those recommending KG-12. Haven't used that many different copper removers but this is the most effective I have used. Found it safe to let it work in the barrel over 24 hours, although the deposit usually dries out sometime over that period. Often it takes 3 or 4 goes, and scrubbing with wet patches and nylon brush but visible copper is removed. I usually start cleaning with KG-1 the carbon fouling remover and I think this also has some copper removing ability, but KG-12 seems to tackle stubborn copper best.

quote:

Originally posted by 30.06king:
I endorse the comments of those recommending KG-12. Haven't used that many different copper removers but this is the most effective I have used. Found it safe to let it work in the barrel over 24 hours, although the deposit usually dries out sometime over that period. Often it takes 3 or 4 goes, and scrubbing with wet patches and nylon brush but visible copper is removed. I usually start cleaning with KG-1 the carbon fouling remover and I think this also has some copper removing ability, but KG-12 seems to tackle stubborn copper best.

I took a steel 1911 barrel and stood it in a beaker of KG-12. I then took a .223 copper jacketed bullet, wrapped a piece of wire around it and sunk it in the KG-12 up to the cannelure and left it overnight.

The next morning, the steel barrel was unaffected, but the .223 bullet was clean of copper right up to the level of the KG-12. There was just a lead slug left, all the copper was GONE!

Check the various threads on using Wipeout.

The first point to note is that bullet fouling forms in layers over carbon! So the rifle may have 3 or 4 layers of carbon & bullet fouling - virtually baked on with the heat.

After 20 years I unraveled the mystery!

Now I clean first with carburetor cleaner to remove the top layer of carbon. Then I use Wipeout & accellerator - leave it soaking for 10 minutes. Another application, wait 10 minutes. The patches will be a bit less blue the second time. I sometimes leave the wipeout in the barrel overnight.

Next I use carburetor cleaner again - alternating 3 or 4 times and you get all the copper out. You will surprised how blue the patch comes out after you remove each layer of carbon and get to the copper under it.

It used to confuse the hell out of me!

Hi Naki,
Would be interested in your comments on KG 12 if you have compared this to your current system. I reckon KG 12 does OK but would like a quicker method if such a thing is possible, and something inert on barrel steel. I tend to clean after each shooting session. Have done quite a bit of reading on AR on this topic but see there's far too many different approaches to try them all. Appreciate any comments.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Check the various threads on using Wipeout.

The first point to note is that bullet fouling forms in layers over carbon! So the rifle may have 3 or 4 layers of carbon & bullet fouling - virtually baked on with the heat.

After 20 years I unraveled the mystery!

Now I clean first with carburetor cleaner to remove the top layer of carbon. Then I use Wipeout & accellerator - leave it soaking for 10 minutes. Another application, wait 10 minutes. The patches will be a bit less blue the second time. I sometimes leave the wipeout in the barrel overnight.

Next I use carburetor cleaner again - alternating 3 or 4 times and you get all the copper out. You will surprised how blue the patch comes out after you remove each layer of carbon and get to the copper under it.

It used to confuse the hell out of me!

I'm not an expert here, but if a guy will clean his barrel down to bare metal, treat it with dyna bore coat as per instructions....it will take about 10 total patches to clean the carbon and copper afterwards. Kroil, either bore tech eliminator or wipe out does the trick, easily.

Sorry mate - I have not tried KG12.

I live in New Zealand and we had difficulty getting a lot of solvents until a few years ago.

Here is what I have tried & how I felt about them.

* Hopes #9 - waste of time
* Shooters' Choice - works - but has ammonia
* Proshot? - same as above
* Sweets - virtually etches the bore with ammonia - stay away
* Breakfree CLP - works slowly but not ideal. Perfect for oiling & storing as a rust prevention etc.
* Butch's Boreshine - works well - used it for years
* WD-40 - good for cleaning old grease, oil etc. Great for stripping & cleaning bolt, ejectors. triggers etc. Make sure you flush it ALL out. This stuff displaces the old thick muck and it can gunk up the action, firing pin etc. if not flushed out. People blame the WD40 for the gunk but they are talking rubbish! This is NOT a bore cleaner as such. Very good for cleaning after getting wet in the bush
* Eezox - works well by penetrating under the layers. Great preservative with thin film. I have not used this purely as a bore cleaner. Have read great reviews in a major test comparing lots of other products. Removes plastic wad fouling in shotguns
* Wipeout / Accelerator - Works best of the lot for bullet fouling
* Carburetor cleaner - best for carbon fouling

I used to clean after every shooting session & again after a month or so. Now I clean after 40 or 50 shots.

I always clean after a hunting trip - completely remove any water, grit, leaves etc.

Has anyone tried Carb-Out along with Wipeout?

Another strong vote for KG-12. Cleans copper better than anything else I have used. Water based, easy to use, and will not eat the finish off your stock nor will it react with moisture causing a potential corrosion issue.

I have seen more bores scrubbed and pitted to an early grave than I have seen shot out.