Whats the cheapest buffalo hunting that is a
good qualty hunt for the money.

Cheap and quality really don't "go" together.

really! good luck!

blaser,

I've not been here yet but this deal is certainly tempting.

Luxury Hunts Is offering this $5,900 all in, Tanz hunt that is hard to beat.

Tell Jeff that I sent you!

Les Howell

I've been looking at it mighty hard. Talked to a few who have been and heard only positive things thus far.
Doug

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
blaser,

I've not been here yet but this deal is certainly tempting.

Luxury Hunts Is offering this $5,900 all in, Tanz hunt that is hard to beat.

Tell Jeff that I sent you!

Les Howell

Which Selous block is the hunting on? It doesn't mention the block on the advert.

On that website under "zim" and then "outfitters" (this ref are some of these photos.

Does anyone recognise them? Are they Sondelani in West Nicholson?

There's got to be something wrong with that....not only is it considerably cheaper than I can BUY a 7 day hunt in the Selous proper- if you look in the background of the photo there is a permenant building with a tiled roof.......not allowed in the Selous itself (except at a game post) as all structures have to be removed at the end of each hunting season. There's also what looks to me like two truck containers from articulated trucks.......how they got there I don't know as anyone who has been to the Selous will agree.

By the time you've subtracted the direct costs of government fees licences and charters etc from that selling figure it allows very little indeed to pay for camp fees, booze, fuel, vehicle maintenance, staff wages, PH wages, establishing & maintaining the camp & any profit or ancilliary costs......To say nothing of agents commissions......And I've never heard of an agent that will represent a safari company for less than US$750 per client per 7 day hunt.

If something looks too good to be true it probably is.........

Can someone please tell me what the difference is between hunt package 1 and package 2?

Apart from the price?

Hunt package 1 is for 2 hunters sharing a 7 day licence which means they won't be allowed to take a second Buffalo - and package 2 is for a 7 day licence each which as you know allows each hunter to take a 2nd Buffalo.

Steve,

Good catch on the 2 hunters sharing one 7 day hunt! I was dazzled by the price and missed that factor entirely. Is that the same as an "observer" shooting a few trophies off a hunters package?

Can an observer hunt as such in Tanzania? If so then package #2 plus 1 observer is even a little better.

But in any event, when you look at it as 1 hunter and one observer [sharing] it really is not "too good to be true" just an average deal for 1 Buffalo. Right?

Les

Les,

I don't usually comment about other companies operations as I feel it's rude to say the least but in this case I'll make an exception.

2 hunters sharing a licence is a way of making things a bit less expensive for the hunter and it's not a particularly uncommon practice......but as I said there has to be something wrong with that price for a hunt in the Selous Reserve proper.....esp in the area they claim, which is a long way from Dar es Salaam and hence a long and expensive charter. (My guess is about US$2000 - 2500 to get clients in and out)- for a decent aircraft.

I just don't believe they can sell that hunt at that price in a decent area and camp and not lose money. Running a camp in the Selous or Masailand etc costs a bloody fortune as it's so remote. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and I would be extremely sceptical about the reliability of that particular offer.

"Hunt cape buffalo in one of the last real frontiers left in Africa on the best game area in Tanzania. This safari takes place in the Selous Game Reserve and is as close to the "old Africa" as you can get but with modern conveniences. The camp is located overlooking the Luhombero River. There are large herds of buffalo resulting in a strong lion and leopard population."

Steve,

I swear that picture of the buffalo skulls in front of the shipping containers is several years old. I remember seeing it on another booking agent's (can't remember which one) website several years ago. The description of the hunting area is also the same.

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

could be the site's out of date - did anyone check when it was last updated?

Funny you should say that about the photo as it rang a bell with me also......but I can't remember where from. The problem with photo's on websites is that they can spring up in so many unlikely places. We had to use a bit of magic on our website to stop people stealing our photo's without our permission. Every time we looked at a site we were seeing our own pictures!

But I stress I'm not suggesting that in this case!

Folks,

I have dropped Luxury Hunts a quick email and advised them about this thread...I am hoping they will come over and perhaps clarify some of the points raised...

Regards,

Pete

Steve,

I've been amazed at that price since I first heard of it. As you say "If it's too good to be true..." - has always concerned me. Though I've heard that he is selling as many of these hunts as he can get.

When considered as a two person hunter/observer package it's not too much different than Cabelas
Package that is, I believe, provided by Miombo in the Kilomboro. [Though I rather doubt that they would go for the hunter/observer trick] and their 6 day hunt allows two Buffalo ONLY - NO plains game.

As I say I've not been there. I certainly did not intend to stir up a hornets nest! blaser93 asked about the cheapest hunt and I thought this was the cheapest I'd seen - until this analysis.

[I will probably be going to Zim first for DG in any event.]

Les

Les,

I wasn't suggesting it's a trick or unethical practice. As long as the client knows about it beforehand then as I say it's not an uncommon practice.......but there are companies that don't tell the client until it's too late as at least one of the forum members has discovered in the past.

Another thing that happens with many companies is they don't include all the odds and ends costs in their advertised prices. Then on further investigation you find out there are a lot of other costs that have to be added on.....
Although that doesn't seem to be the case here particularly.

I notice dip and pack isn't included nor is the Community Development Fee but they were the only exclusions I noticed.

I just don't understand how they can offer those prices.

Steve

I think this is a great discussion of "the cheapest hunt" and what the first time buffalo hunter needs to be aware of.

This may or may not be the best deal going but the discussion will be helpful to anyone considering Tanzania buffalo hunting.

Les

I think that's the beauty of the forums - it can help people exchange ideas and opinions and so help others how not to get their fingers burnt etc.

The following comments are not directed at any particular hunting operation specifically but are concerning the African hunting industry in general.

The African hunting industry is jam packed full of pitfalls for the unwary hunter and it's suprising how many intelligent people get caught out. I hear of at the very least 6 occasions a year where guys end up/being caught out with canned hunts, non-existent hunts, ill informed advice and poor quality hunts etc.....

At the end of the day, you get what what you pay for or at least, you don't get what you don't pay for.

quote:

At the end of the day, you get what what you pay for or at least, you don't get what you don't pay for.

This is exaclty what I was getting at with my first response. There has to be a lot of fine print behind that hunt price. Just be careful for what you book!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
At the end of the day, you get what what you pay for or at least, you don't get what you don't pay for.

That is why I asked which block is it actually on. I straight away checked to see if taxes and fees were on top, but they are included per the claim.

Hopefully the agent will make it clear as they have been invited to participate.

Hopefully Luxury Hunts - Jeff Martinell, will join us here on this forum. Surely he can provide references of people who have been on this hunt.

I do know that he serves hundreds of hunters annually from all over, and he has a huge following in the central PA area - It seems unlikely that he'd market something that was not on the up and up.

He got good reviews here a few months ago when someone requested references. He does book extensivly for my favorite outfitter in the Eastern Cape, and I've not heard anything negative said about him.

I spoke with him about this hunt 18 months ago+/- and was convinced that he felt it was a legitimate deal.

Les

The cheapest hunt is probably the one you DON'T want to go on.

But good luck none the less.

Gents,

Not everyone can afford the high dollar hunts, but it still does not decrease the desire to hunt..

I don't believe that all budget hunts are bad, but do believe you have to be aware where the compromisies are being made.

With this particular offer, I wondered if the camp was actually off the Selous itself so that each morning entailed a drive to the hunting area? I have no idea if this so, just a thought...

What strikes me about many of the tanz hunts is the sheer luxurary of the camps and the number of staff involved.

I would actually prefer something a little more bare bones/adventerous, especially if that saved on the costs a little.

Regards

Pete

Pete,

Most TZ camps aren't particularly luxurious. If you want luxury you need to go to Botswana.

The average TZ hunting camp has about 4 guest tents which are generally en-suite. The reason for the en-suite is more to protect the client from wandering predators than it is for luxury.

Then there is a dining area made of branches with a canvas or thatch roof. Most places use plastic garden chairs as if you use canvas or leather chairs sooner or later a native who smears himself with animal fat etc sits in it and leaves the smell behind and then the hyena's come along at night and eat the chairs.

The kitchens are made of the same materials as the dining areas and the cooker is as basic as you could possibly get......but the food is so good because of the chefs abilities......and so it goes on.

What makes Tanzania so expensive and so good is that the game laws are so strict....and frankly I wouldn't have it any other way.

They insist that all structures are removed from the area at the end of the season....this ensures that the wilderness stays wild. They don't allow any vegetables to be grown in the area..... hence they can't start growing wild. Add these and other rules together and it means that their areas remain pristine wilderness - but at the cost to every outfitter having to import from the nearest town (probably about 1 or 2 days drive away) every can of beer, every vegetable, every screw and everything else you can possibly think of. Then factor in the remoteness of the areas when compared to most other African countries with good hunting industries and you come up with an expensive hunting destination. (Just think of the cost of bringing all that fuel in for the hunting trucks!)

Sure there's a lot of staff - but labour is cheap in Arica and they're generally needed. It's always a better idea to have 2 mechanics for example as if one goes down with malaria and the truck needs fixing who's gonna do it?

Tanzania might be expensive -but it's worth every penny and is has the very best True Wilderness Areas I've ever had the pleasure of hunting in. Comparing it to most other African countries is like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford.

LHowell mention Miombo Safaris. They were a company I was interested in for their Tanzania elephant hunting. I met with them at Dallas and was impressed. Couldn't afford the elephant, but their Selous and Kilombero buffalo hunts are inexpensive. Maybe the ones mentioned here. Don't know the quality of their buffalo hunts, but they seem to be a classy outfit.

According to their 2005 price list, a 7 day 2x1 buffalo is $5,950 and their 2x1 Companion is $5,250. They describe a 2x1 companion as "Two hunters w/ one PH share the game available on one license split between two licenses. www.miombosasafaris.com

SBT,

Where did you find those Miombo rates? Did you pick them up at the show?

The hunts through Cabelas [still from Miombo I believe] follow - do your rates include all the same extras?
[QUOTE]
# Rates:

$6,900*/person - 4x2
# $7,200*/person - 2x1
# $9,900*/person - 1x1
# $1,750 - Observers
*Prices based on sharing charter flights.

Dates: September - November; 6-day hunts

Includes: Professional hunter, lodging, meals, conservation/concession fees, license, dip/pack/crate, charters and customs assistance.

Not Included: Hotel before and after hunt, firearm license, tips and trophy fees on Buffalo - 1st $1,000; 2nd $1,500.

Transportation: Fly to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, where you will be met by the outfitter.
Contact: Cabela's Outdoor Adventures at 1-800-346-8747 [QUOTE]

Les

Les,
Yes, those prices were off of their 2005 price sheet. I will check when I get home tonight to see what was included. The corresct link is: www.miombosafaris.com

Guys,

You have to find a Heck of a bargain if your total cost for buff hunt comes in under $10,000.00.

Regards,

Mark

Les,
To be certain, you would need to check with the outfitter. But, the 2005 Safari Rate sheet lists the prices I quoted plusGov't fees and royalties (conservation fee, hunting lic, concession fee, trophy handling fee) totaling $2,650 for a 7 day hunt; plus air charter ($780 - I think that is each way)
What is included:
Crew, camp, medical chest, food including beer/alcohol except champagne, 4x4, skinning and field prep, meet/depart assistance, tourist membership in flying Doctors.

What is not included:
firearms license, trophys fees, air charter, pre/post hotels, commercial airlines, gratuities, air-freight of trophies from Tanzanaia to home.

So, by my calculations and not their math, a 2x1 buffalo hunt with 1 buffalo each would cost about $10,130 per hunter.

SBT,

Well that isn't much of a deal compared to even their Cabelas package, even though only 6 days. Theirs would be $8200 per hunter 2x1 Including one buffalo fee and all other fees and shared charter.[possible second Buff@$1,500 - but NO plains game.]

And certainly makes Luxury Hunts $5,900 "all in" price stand out - even as a shared package.

Les

We really need to hear from the agents or outfitters themselves. There are so many different ways to price a charter. It could be per aircraft to take the clients in and out of the area, it could be per plane per return flight or it could be per person etc.

It looks to me like the area is in the north of the selous (assuming it's not out of the selous) and we pay around US$2500 for a 5 seater to get the clients in and out of a similar area.

For everyones information, I recieved the following reply to my email:

"Dear Mr. Evans,
Thank you for the inquiry. The area in the Selous is L1. Jeff and Dan are in Africa and will return on April 22nd. I will have them email you when they return if that would be OK with you.
Regards,
Bonnie"

We will probably be bitching about the 45/70 again by then!

Regards,

Pete

The photos in Nitro X's post are indeed Sondelani in West Nicholson, I hunted there in July 2003. The Buffalo hunt everyone is talking about is in Tanzania and I have spoken with several hunters that have been on that hunt. They all had outstanding reviews and said they would hunt again. The PH is Keith Hakes and I believe the Safari Operation is Dingwall Safaris from my talking with references. I believe I heard Don Bowers name also mentioned in the conversations. Everyone I have talked with had nothing but good things to say. I hope they are true because it would be nice to have some affordable hunts to go on and still have a good time. I am seriously considering the hunt myself if I can find the "2" in 2x1.
Doug

I have to agree with Mark, I have been researching cape buff hunts for a long time and everyone ends up being at least 10K by the time all the necessary expenses get added up. My own preference is to hear the bottom line right up front and not have to read all the fine print to find out how much it is really going to cost
me when all is said and done.

Did anyone else notice that lion is available on a 16 day safari??

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett:
Did anyone else notice that lion is available on a 16 day safari??

Brett

That must be old information. They changed the law in 2002 to require a 21 day license for lion. [Of course, you can buy a 21 license and just hunt 16 days if the outfitter will allow it].

Regards,

Terry

If it is L1 it should be good for buffalo. I hunted K1-K2 accross the river in 2001. The PH I hunted with was working for Adam at the time (who I think had L1, Adam?) in L1 but subed for Pano on my safari as Pano had just had a heart attack and his mother had passed away. PH was Jason Bergman. He said that the buffalo were not quite as plentyfull in L1 as in K1-2 but the hunting was still quite good.

Anyone have an idea of the chances of a lion in L1??

Brett

I've not hunted L1 but have hunted K1/2 and found it to be a little feast or famine. The Buff seem to be funnelled through there at certain times and at other times there's not much there......for those that have hunted there.....has anyone noticed the odd shaped termite mounds?

Just because the price is low does not make it a bad hunt. And a high price does not necessarily mean it is a better hunt. Like all things in life, you must shop around and compare.