Come on guys, how do you think that HHK has tied up so much of Zimbabwe while the rest of the old timers are getting kicked out...I forgot the guys name but he is a new minister and he is a black official, its been well hidden, but now its out...I can get his name, thats not a problem but it really makes little difference on this board. One has to make his own decisions on such matters. I say let your consciencd be your guide.

All one has to do is talk to the old timers that have been in there for years, and ask them how come they were booted and HHK got the concessions they have had for years...

I only know what I have been told by some of the old PHs and have no personal knowledge as to the accuracy of their testimony, but I personally believe them, they are an honest and trustworthy group of men IMO.....combine that with what is happening and it paints a pretty darn clear picture in my mind, at least to anyone who understands African politics and the greed of big businessmen...

One would think the US Govt. would add some more folks to the doing business with Magabee list, that list is sorely outdated and inaccurate. Maybe I will just approach that with some senators and congressmen..

Ray,

I was looking for some serious information, not just hear say or gut instincts. I have two different outfits that I have heard hunt Lemco; HHK of course and Bill Lemon. I have heard that Lemco is a co-op concession that leases hunts to different outfitters by the hunt. My question was and is: What factual data do you have directly connecting this concession with Mugabe / his thugs? I am certain you know more than I about Zimbabwe / Safari Hunting. However, I would appreciate researched or documented information. If Lemco is legitimate I would like to hunt it. If it is not I need to know.

A similar topic from last year.

HHK

Regards,

Terry

I hunted the Lowveldt (same area) on the Malangani Conservancy with John Sharp in 01 and had a SUPERB time. The 150k plus acre conservancy, is owned by a German philantropist so Mugabe stays out of it.

The way I look at it, the place employs and houses over 200 african families who otherwise would be left to their own devices, game is protected and cared for and there are no problems. I just re-booked with John Sharp again to hunt Dande province near the Mozambique border and Malangani. Looking ofrward to it. The service, accomodations and professional competence are second to none, with a lot smaller price tag than Tanzania. Am I taking a chance that the whole enchilada will "go south" between now and June? you bet, but africa is africa and NONE of the countries down there are a model of stability. If you want "safety" go hunt deer in the states. jorge

I did my research, I talked with Roy Vicent, Allan Vicent, who were booted out for non compliance with bribes, and guess who has their concession that they had for years, and I talked to large contingent of other PHs who lost concessions to Magabee and again guess who got the concessions..They were all of one accord as to what was happening, If that does not suit those who have posted here then there is little I can do about that....

I'm satisfied with my findings and I had the name of the official but have forgotten it, as its no concern to me anymore, but I could get it in a heartbeat if I thought it would do any good... I walked out of Zimbabwe based on that investigation on my part and because I don't want to be a part of that and it bothered me that some some would turn on their kinsmen in such a matter. I could and still can book for about any of Safari Companies in Zim, as a matter of fact, but guess what, I won't... It cost me big bucks to walk out of Zimbabwe, I wouldn't do that except it was on principle alone...

Just common since should be enough to convience anyone that there can be but one reason that most all the PHs that hunt Zimbabwe now are sub leasing from HHK... They own all the good old concession now for the most part...come on!! surely thats apparant at face value otherwise you just are refusing to admit it and in which case any facts or figures will only cause more arguements....

If anyone truly wants to know the truth then do your own investigation, its not difficult then come to your own judgments..I am satisfied with mine.

As far as safty and the quality of the hunts goes, that has nothing to do with my post. I am sure they have good hunts, no reason for them not too, they are protected and that also is apparant... I am sure those who hunt there will be pleased and its probably not their problem in the first place, its not their country. So make your own decisions based on your own feelings, its apparant that's what happens in these cases anyway...Most of us are guilty of only believing what we want to anyway...

This post from Ganyana:

"Matetsi Unit five ended up in Park's hands because Roy Vincent and his Son (Ganyana Safaris - no relation to me) were too principaled to take on a corupt political partner who could get the lease rolled.

Next problem was that every thieving SOB in the politburo wanted the area, so Mick Townsend on the parks board came up with the bright idea of letting parks run it so they would learn something about the industry they are trying to regulate.

Been an almost virticle learning "curve" for the department!!!!. Have had to get HHK in to market and suply most of the PH's. The camp manager is a dam fine man. David Mpungu is a top class parks officer and the chairman of the PH examinations committee. He is doing a wonderful job under the circumstances. Some of the parks PH's are very good. David and Lovemore Mongwashu being by far the best. Some are OK and the rest - well thats why HHK is supplying the men and making sure there is food and beer and fuel in the camp!

Good theory, has kept the political wolves and underhand South African operators out but... This is Africa."

From this previous topic:

AR Topic

Regards,

Terry

Ray,

I first hunted with Graham Hingeston in 1995 when he barely had a pot to piss in from an outfitter standpoint. Since then, I have watched his business grow and adapt under conditions that would, and has, forced most to quit. Yes, HHK is the largest operator in Zim. They are also the biggest target for abuse by those who haven't been as successful. They have played the "indiginization" game well - as have all of the successful Zim operators. It has long been a fact of life in Zim that you must have a black partner to gain and keep a government concession. That is nothing new. As a result of their success, other Zim operators have thrown in with them, rather than quit and leave the country. Happens all the time in business of all kinds. The fact is, that Graham can sell safaris, when the average PH/outfitter cannot.

Lemco is not controlled by Mugabe cronies. It is owned by a deep pocketed group of Zimbabwean, European and American investors. Most notable among them is Charles Davy, who has been in the cattle ranching and hunting business in Zimbabwe for over 20 years. Of course they have enjoyed the benefit of political connections. Name an industry in the US that has the same relative effect on our economy as does hunting in Zim and check the status of its political influence. However, did their "influence" save them from having Matetsi Unit One, a government area they had long managed, illegally reallocated to a bogus operator? No. They had to go to court and prove their case. When the facts were in, they got the area back.

Lemco's operations have not escaped the troubles of the rest of the country - in fact, they have given land to the squatters. Graham has personally lost two farms totaling several thousand acres, including his family property where he grew up and where his father was living until it was taken.

What operator in Zimbabwe has been "kicked off" an area in favor of HHK? Last time Chirisa came up for tender, they bid for the whole area and were successful. Chete had not been hunted for several years. The government announced an auction for quota that was divided into hunts. HHK bought the whole deal and continues to operate the area. Certainly, they were better financed than their competitors at the auctions. And they have been willing to put capital at risk when many of the "old timers" were not. Again, who got "kicked off" his lease?

HHK has gotten where they are by delivering on what they say, running excellent camps, attracting great PH's, being well financed, and aggressively marketing. Sounds like success in any business.

There is no doubt that if you hunt in Zim, some of your dollars flow to the crooks. The same thing happens in every African country. None of them are clean and none of them are in the safari business to fulfill our boyhood fantasies or for love of the wildlife.

Oopsie, do I detect an out break of Foot-In-Mouth disease?!

I was asked to post this on AR.........


I would appreciate it if you would post this on accurate reloading for me.

HHK Safaris hunts in the following concessions:

1) Chirisa Safari Area - this was purchased on auction in 1994 by Bill Bedford of Ingwe Safaris and subsequently sold to HHK Safaris in 1999 by Bill Bedford. the concession was in no way given to us and we paid a considerable sum of money for it.

2) Chete Safari Area - this was purchased by HHK Safaris in January 2003 on an open auction, which was not restricted to anyone and was a completely transparent process in which anyone could participate.

3) Matetsi - Unit 1 - this area was purchased on open auction in 1997 by Charles Davy, again this auction was open to anyone and the person who was prepared to pay the most got the concession.

4) Lemco - this is a private concservancy which was purchased off Lever Brothers in the UK in 1994 by Charles Davy, he subsequently sold it onto various investors which comprise US, South African, German and French businessman. Charles had enough forsight back in 1995 when he did this to get airtight government guarantees on the protection of the investors rights which is why he has managed to keep Lemco intact.

In addition to the above concessions - HHK Safaris markets and manages the safaris in the Omay on behalf of Butch Walker of Bulembi Safaris and Joe Wright of National Safaris. We do not own the concessions nor have we bought them.

What galls me is that Atkinson has the gumf to make statements about HHK Safaris without ever having met me or discussed our operation. Myself and my family have lost two farms which my grandfather started and carved out of raw bush in 1950, Charles Davy has lost upwards of 200,000 acres of land, neither of us have been compensated one cent for this. Yet the fact that we operate a successful safari business in the most trying of times, gives cause for small minded assholes to make statements about HHK. The fact is we have not been given one concession by anyone, nor have we moved any of the old timers out of their concessions. We operate a completely transparent operation and anyone who actually knows what is going on will attest to this.

Best regards

Graham

I generally take a man at his word, unless I have good reason to suspect that he is lying.

I don't know Mr. Hingeston, but I have to respect his willingness to step forward and state his case here. Do I know whether he is truthful? No. But, without any proof whatsoever, would I call him a liar? Absolutely not.

Many safari operators in Zim have gone to bed with the corrupt politicians who are raping that country. That is well known.

But I believe it isn't fair to tar all operators with the same brush, to declare them all liars and cheats and to accuse them all of staying in business only because they bribe and kowtow to corrupt politicians.

My main problem with hunting in Zim, and the reason I have never done it, is that substantial amounts of the money paid by tourist hunters to Zim safari operators goes to the so-called government. And some substantial part of those funds are undoubtedly embezzled by corrupt government officials.

So, by hunting in Zim, I would be helping to support the government and filling the pockets of the corrupt and truly evil politicians who run it.

But what of those whose lives and livelihoods are invested in their safari businesses in Zim? What of those who are trying to succeed in spite of the odds, and while preserving their honor, under the vile Mugabe regime?

By not hunting in Zim, we are hurting them, in fact, we are probably, in the long run, dooming them to failure.

And, of course, the game will suffer, too, if its economic value is undermined by the reduction or elimination of safari hunting.

As a hunter who loves Africa, and hunting in Africa, I am constantly re-thinking my position on hunting in Zim. If I could be sure that I would be dealing with an honorable operator (such as the HHK firm that Mr. Hingeston describes), my position would probably change. I could be persuaded that it would be better to hunt in Zim with such a company than boycott the country.

But I don't have any contacts or personal friends in Zim. Like many, I have no one there whom I can just call on the phone or email, ask for the straight truth about something, and then simply trust.

So, what do I do? I stay away. I hunt in Tanzania, Namibia, Zambia, Botswana, somewhere, or anywhere, else. It's a hard choice, and one I'm not completely comfortable with, but without better information, it's the only one I can make.

What galls me is when Graham was confronted by one of his "friends" that he assured that friend that he had no intention or making a play for his concession, then he ended up with it..

In all societies some interprising persons take advantage of the political situation and buckle under to the opressor, pay the gold, and become successfull businessmen at the expense of others, some consider this good business while others do not, and those that do are the survivors, no doubt about that..I suppose they feel justified in their actions inasmuch as they have a family to feed and that comes first..Maybe that is correct, maybe its not, depends on your outlook...but at least be honest with oneself and don't make excuses...It is easy enough to show legality in such matters when one is dealing with a crooked government.

I have nothing more to say on this subject as the internet is not the place to take my concerns and that is a mistake on my part, so I think it best that I take my case to the proper authorities and let them worry about it...

The honesty of HHK Safaris or their dealings with clients is not the question and has little to do with the subject at hand...

The facts are that in Zimbabwe today one cannot operate on that level without a powerful politician in ones pocket who gets big bucks and thats a fact like it or not...

Now, some seem to need to justify that fact and so be it but the bottom line is that the Magabe government has placed the white African under a dictatorship and their or those that will support this government to their ends and their are those who will not.

The bottom line is that to hunt there is supporting the terroist regime, like it or not! Some feel they are helping the white African by putting bucks in their pocket and perhaps their is some substance to that.. That is a decision that some must justify in their own mind, some will and some will not, Some did with Saddam and some did with Hitler..It's an old story that goes back a million years...It boils down to choices.

Ray:
I am not an educated man and only have a high school education. I am just middle class and have been self employed most of my life with varing degrees of success.
But something here doesn't smell right.I know that you're a well respected member of this board,but with all due respect I think you are out of line.I have been a member of this forum for some time now and generally don't voice my opinion but I believe your opinions of HHK are business oriented and thus so tainted, and furthermore if they do have a politicion in their pocket to stay in business and help the people they can.Well, I think thats great!! Like that does'nt happen here!! Maybe you should rethink some of you're statements here and elsewhere on these forums , for I feel that maybe arrogance has gotten in the way.


Paul R. Kawczk

500grains:
I am not well-versed and can not carry on a very good
argument I just say it the the only way I know how. But very well said!!

Paul R. Kawczk

hugh:
My wife and I hunted the Chirisa/Lemco with HHK in 2000.
Our hunt was originally booked in Feb.1998 for a Bufflo/Plainsgame safari in July 1999,but I got myself into some trouble with the Law and had to cancel.We told Grahm to keep the deposits we had made towards our safari because we didn't know when or if we were ever going to be able to go.Grahm told us not to worry about it and to let him know when we were ready.
Well,we finally got my legal problems taken care of in March 2000 and I called Grahm, who immediately scheduled us to do our first safari in May of the same year. Grahm went above and beyond to make our first safari an adventure of a life time.
He didn't have to hold our deposit.He was booked solid for the month of July ,but fit us in.He kept in touch from time to time to see how things were going with my legal problems.The little extra's that Grahm did for us are to many to list here and we are for ever greatful to him and HHK, for we feel that we got more than our monies worth.
We think that Grahm is an HONEST and HONORABLE man and would not hesitate to book another safari with him,which we hope to do in the future.I believe that his honesty carries over to all of his business not just his clients, not that it's any of my business.I feel for the people of Zim. but I cannot justify the starving of one or the many to spite another.(Mugaby)

Paul R. Kawczk

Here's my take on the issue of hunting in ZIM.



I don't know how much of my money goes to Mugabe and his cronies. I don't really care (assuming, of course, I'm hunting with a reputable outfitter). By not hunting Zimbabwe, I'm not going to put a major dent in the finances of Bob and his buddies. I will, however, make it more difficult for the safari operators to survive.



I do know that I put some pretty good money directly in the pockets of the staff and the PH. I also fed a whole village with elephant meat.



I had a great safari and would hunt ZIM every year if I could afford it.



Regards,



Terry

mrlexma

Very well put and thought out. Having just had a lengthy discussion with Barrie Duckworth, owner of Mokore Safaris, around the campfire in the Save about this subject, may I suggest you e-mail Barrie (mokore@mweb.co.zw) as he is one of the "good guys" trying to save his operation and his country by continuing hunting the "right" way and has no love of the government.

CFA

Mugabe is an old man and will pass away fairly soon. Any riches that he has hoarded will be quickly diddled away by his followers.



The fundamental question is whether safari hunting in ZIM can survive. If we boycott Zim, then we will be bankrupting the safari operators and assigning a zero economic value to the wildlife. The blacks will respond by killing and eating all the of the game, which will be a long term catastrophe.



I will choose the lesser of two evils by hunting in Zim, and hopefully contribute a small amount to help keep the safari operators going unti more happy times arrive. Mugabe might get a little richer as a result, but that is a better alternative than the destruction of Zim's wildlife.



As for the Vincents' situation, I have no personal knowledge of it and I am sorry that they have been forced to leave the country. Even if you are not inclined to to believe Mr. Hingston, Ganyana's input above explains that HHK was only asked to get involved well after Parks had made its decision to take the concession back. This does not mean that the Vincent's should have lost their concession at all. If they refused to deal with corrupt politicians, then my hat is off to them for their integrity. But I have not read anything which indicates any wrongdoing by HHK either.

When Mugabe dies, everything is in place for a takeover by his chosen people..That is what will be in Zimbabwe, like it or not.

I have said what I believe, it is my opinnion, I don't feel like I am out of line as I believe I have told the truth, I am and have been a part of the hunting industry in Zimbabwe for many years and I have made my decision to leave there based on what I have learned, right or wrong..I have passed along what I believe to be true to those on this board as I think its important that it be said, it is my conviction and I stand firm...

For those that have loyalities to whoever then let it be, that is for you to decide..I do feel that some just can't handle the truth or don't really want to face up to it for financial or personal reasons, but that again is simply my opinnion, so do as you wish, I would do the same if I were in your shoes, and I certainly hold no malice to what any of you decide, I will however express myself and disagree with you, I have that right as do you...We can surely agree to disagree..

For those that have not made up their minds, then go fourth with care, do your math, and let your conscience be your guide..Thats the best I can say.