The following are emails I have received from Boet. He asked that I post them for him. The only thing I edited was 404's real name from the emails.

I did call Ben Beytel 15 minutes ago and he stated that 404 did call him on the 17/12/07 , but he denied that the stuff 404 put in the forum , also that there was never a letter wrote to me or any penalties issued on me . I also did talked to Volker Grellmann, he will call Mr. Beytel and let me get a letter to proof my innocence , that I will forward to you and you can put it on the forum .

Also did Mr. Beytel promise to look into the permit issue for 404's wife and then take it from there because that is illegal if she had hunted on his permit.

I got good news , I did fax the letter that 404 put on the forum to Mr. Beytel and Mr. Grellmann. After consulting with both Mr. Ben Beytel and Mr. Voker Grellmann they come to this .

Because 404 did put words in Mr. Beytel mouth that was never spoken and pretend actions that was never taken and got the cheek to published it on the internet , they see it as a offence against the Director of the Ministry of Environment and Tourism . They stated that they will not get into a letter war and offer instead that anybody that want to know the truth and want to confirm that my case are clean can phone them anytime of the day on their private mobile phone at the following tell nr.

Mr. Ben Beytel ---- ++ 264 811 272 932

Mr. Volker Grellmann ---- ++ 264 811 24 48 48
E .mail address anvo@mweb.com.na

Also will they investigate now to make sure if there had been a permit issued for Miss 404's gemsbok, if not than that was an illegal hunt and actions will then be taken

Can you please put this contact details on the forum so that we can stop this nonsense

Thank you

Boet

In my experience over the last 22 years I had guided over 1100 trophy hunters from all over the world and hunted in 4 countries in Africa. We did take close to 8000 trophy animals and the experiences and special moments that had been shared will be with me for ever .

I know you can never make everybody always happy , but there can be nothing more inspiring as to hunt with a nice,appreciative client.For this type of client you will go the extra 20 miles just to keep eating out of his hand.This is hunters who would sometimes make light of some short comings and understand that everything can not always be as comfortable as back home but who still appreciate and enjoy every moment they can be out in the bush and who are looking forward to the next stalk and the next camp fire , they are a rare breed .

On the otherside of the coin you had that detestable,obstreperous individual who would object for the sake of objection . Who will always find something to complain about and never except that some consequences are because of their own faults . Most Professional Hunters pride themselves on being able to handle the most awkward client under the most adverse conditions . But it can be problematic and occasionally the client will be asked to pack his bags and depart forthwith, but thank God that happened only occasionally.

I had been quiet for a long time so that the law can run it course to decided who is right and who is wrong and with this written here do not want to and will not get into anymore of this . I am glad that I got the backing of the Director on the Ministry of Environment and the Ombudsman of the Namibia Professional Hunters Association into this matter .

I wish all the hunters around the world a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year with a lot of adrenaline rush moments .....

All the Best

Boet NeL

Great. Please, someone call them and post the results of the call. And while you are at it, ask

-If Mr. Nel has "got the backing of the Director on (sic) Ministry of Environment and the Ombudsman of the Namibia Professional Hunters Association into this matter" as he writes in his proxy post above

-If he admitted fault and admitted he owed me a refund

-if there have been any other complaints against Mr. Nel, and ask about his general reputation in the Namibia hunting community.

What an odd fellow he his, trying to sling some mud our way re the hunting permits. Knock yourself out...oh BTW they are:

My wife's Permit Number is 77715 issued on the
15th June 2006. My permit number was 77716.

Lastly Montana, I don't know why you continue to champion Mr. Nels' cause here.

As you know you wrote an email some weeks ago wherein you stated:

" As I said Boet knows he should pay you but feels that if he pays you.

1. it is an admission of guilt
2. you would spread it all over the internet as such.

If you could present it to him as a billing error or something along those lines he might pay you."

Montana, you are obviously representing Boet here and trying to negotiate a settlement for him by email with me, and at the same time posting here that Mr. Nel was exonerated and not at fault etc.

I took notes of my call to Mr. Beytell, and re-read my posting about the call. As stated, there was not enough evidence for the Ministry to take official action against his license, but the fact that he was admonished/reprimended is directly from my notes, as is his admission that he acted unprofessionally.

I also received an email from Mr. Grellman where he wrote me that Mr Nel told Mr. Grellman that he was "sentenced" to an "admission of guilt" and had to pay.

So how can Mr. Nel post here that he was exonerated, unless he means his actions did not rise to the level of having his license taken away from him?

In another thread you stated to me you had written proof from Grellman that you would forward is this it?

My last communication with you on the case was on 14
> September 2006, in which I explained to you that to
> make a bigger case against Mr Nel, we would require
> a little more tangible evidence than what we had
> until then. I further noted, that Mr Beytell's
> office was approached and requested, that we should
> be informed what actions where taken. I only heard
> from Mr Nel, that he was "sentenced" to an
> "admission of guilt" and had to pay. I wanted to
> acquire confirmation and up to this date did not
> receive such information.
>
> I further stated, that in my opinion Mr Nel owes you
> the warthog fee of US$ 390.00 plus the travellingfee
> to Windhoek of US$ 198.00. He will be request to
> transfer these funds to you without any further
> delay.
>
> Then I wrote to you again on 17th October 2006 where
> I just informed you, that we could not find you on
> the 13th and 14th of October, whilst you were in the
> country.
>
> Nevertheless, I wish to apologise for not having
> followed up earlier, especially with the
> confirmation from the Director and am not aware of
> any other e-mails that I have allegedly not replied
> to.
>
> I also think, that your last sentence of the e-mail
> 07 May 07 is not fair as it does not reflect the
> truth, in so far, that we "allegedly" have done
> nothing for 1 year.
>
> With best personal regards,
> Yours faithfully
> Volker Grellmann
> NAPHA Ombudsman

The above is what I am talking about, I sent this to Boet asking what gives. His reply was he had seen that letter and felt that if he paid you what Grellman suggested you would use it to smear him. Reason is he feels you are a very vindictive person. I also personally feel this way too after all the emails you have sent me. Your use of wording and obviuos tone of the message indicates such. That is why I advised you, Boet would be in the States and for you to visit him and work it out like big boys. Instead you are trashing him all over the internet and dragging up past problems.

In Boet's letter to the forum he states he has hunted 1100 hunters of course there will be a few people who are not happy. I still feel as in the email I replied to that your whole hunt went south with the last phone call you made to Boet b-4 leaving the Sates and that there is a misunderstanding there somewhere. As I was sitting on the couch when when Boet got off the phone and said you were on the way. That he had advised you that there would be some days you did not have a PH. As this was my first question to him ,he stated he told you this and you were ok with it. This is within seconds of him hanging up the phone that this conversation was held.



I was not representing Boet in a deal, I did this outside of Boet's knowledge in the hope some grownups would show up and work it out. I feel you are unfairly attacking him that is why I am championing his cause. You are not telling the full truth IMHO. you are cutting and pasting the emails to your benefit. Do you care if I post all your emails that you sent me in private.

[Montana, you are obviously representing Boet here and trying to negotiate a settlement for him by email with me, and at the same time posting here that Mr. Nel was exonerated and not at fault etc.]

Boet sent me those emails and asked that I post it for him.


I would love to have NAPHA issue a statment in this matter.

M

SAEED, please get a room titled "the Boet Nel saga" for 404 and Montana.....so that we can get some hunting reports posted here....I think most people run when they see these headings.....or read it like house wifes watch soaps on the tele......I for one are fed up to open the hunting reports with great anticipation, just to see the only thing going on there are these guys...AGAIN

infinito,

I agree with you 100%. I thought this was over, me and 404 had emailed privatley and I thought worked it out. I emailed 404 told him Boet would be in the States and to go see him and work it out like grown men. That was several weeks ago. Then 404 posted these last two threads and I bumped my trip report to the top to counter his negative. I did not hijack his thread or even post in it.

I do not care to harm 404 in anyway.

I have emailed NAPHA and asked them to make public their findings in this case.

M

Whoever is right or wrong in this, everyone (ESP 404) needs to remember a couple of things. Firstly, there's such a thing a libel laws and they apply equally to the internet as anywhere else. In fact even more so, because a site owner can also be dragged into the issue through no fault of his own, as can the Namibian Game Dept and the PH Association. It would be much better for all concerned if this thing was kept entirely private.

Secondly, any enquiry and/or ruling by a parks board/game dept etc, is just that and nothing more. I'm not a lawyer (thank God!) and I certainly don't know Namibian law, but I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff that any judgement by the aforementioned PB/GD OR the PH Association is NOT a legal, enforceable judgement and therefore would have no relevance to anything.

Like Infinito and I'm sure a lot of others, I'd prefer to see this done privately or hear it had been settled quietly, face to face at the conventions.

quote:

Like Infinito and I'm sure a lot of others, I'd prefer to see this done privately or hear it had been settled quietly, face to face at the conventions.

It sounds like attempts were made to settle it privately. Personally, I like to hear about the misdeeds of outfitters so I can avoid using their services. A forum dedicated to this purpose would be best though.

One of my points is that we don't KNOW if there were misdeeds and if there were, by whom. Hence my point about libel.

As someone said, there are usually 3 sides to this kind of thing. Two views and the truth. Sure there's the odd wrong 'un in the hunting industry but there's also the odd wrong 'un in the client base as well. -- (IMO) It's a bad idea to assume one party is entirely in the wrong when only one side is commenting on a public forum. I don't know either party from a bar of soap, but if the outfitter has been in the business for any length of time, there's a bloody good chance he's doing something right.

IMHO,

If you don't want to read this stuff, don't click on the post and you won't have to. This discussion is directly related to two hunting reports posted on these boards.

"Libel laws"? What country's laws apply?

I'll start by saying I'm not a lawyer, but do know something about the subject.

Do a google search etc and you'll find out that a variety of laws in a variety of places can be applied, which gives a possibility of multiple prosecutions. That of the country of residence of the libeller, the libelled or wherever the website is hosted.

In this case, I believe it means the USA, Namibia & Denmark at the very least.

Before anyone leaps to the defense of this PH, they really need to read 404J's hunt report.

Even a quick scan of that report would permit even the densest of readers to understand why he is so pissed off at this boor.

As someone who always takes his wife along on safari, I appreciate this information and commend 404J for his civilized behavior.

And this forum is the perfect place for such reports - and follow up - no matter what anyone says to the contrary.

Hey, I'm not leaping to anyone's defence. You seem to be missing my point.... All we see here is one side of the argument.... which may or may not be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I don't have a dog in this fight but I do think it's unfair to publicly accuse someone on a public forum. - And there is no doubt that some of the statements that have been made are libellous, which is quite simply wrong any way you look at it.

The place for this dispute is in a courtroom not on a public forum where only one side of the argument puts his case.......

quote:

And there is no doubt that some of the statements that have been made are libellous, which is quite simply wrong any way you look at it.

The truth is an absolute defense against a libel charge. If you know of anything 404WJJeffery has posted that isn't true, I'd like you to point it out. I don't know him at all, but I suspect he is ready to defend himself against such allegations.

I also second the idea that if one doesn't like reading about this misadventure one should have the ability NOT to click on the related threads. They aren't exactly hiding in an alley waiting to mug you as you scroll by.

shakari, please quit with the BS about libel. As Gatogordo has said, truth is an absolute defense against that charge. What possible motive could 404J have for making this stuff up?

And as for this being the wrong place to raise this matter because it's a public forum, one can say that only if one completely ignores what has happened here.

404J tried to work this out on the spot, while it was happening, and then later in private, through official means. That didn't work, or at least hasn't worked so far.

And BTW, this is a public forum, so if the PH wants to respond in public, all he needs to do is register and respond. Instead he is passing off second hand emails and bringing petty charges of "illegal" hunting by 404J's wife.

As for the courtroom being the right place to air this, well, it is certainly one place. And before this is finished - if the PH comes stateside - I wouldn't be surprised if he found himself inside of one.

Hold on guys, since when did I need your approval or permission to make a post of any kind.

My point is that what's happening here is that one side of the argument is being heard and not the other. I have no idea if what is claimed happened or not, (frankly, I don't care) but neither do you know what actually happened.- Which is why I said the place to take this is a (Namibian) court of law, where both sides can have their say. Trial by internet is always a very dangerous and unfair thing.

As to libel, follow this link,

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=460105415#460105415

scroll towards the bottom of the page and you'll find this comment: - 'This PH is an ass, vulgar, a bullshitter and a weasel, and I encourage all to stay away from him'

It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong in this matter. - That statement is libellous and probably so are others elsewhere.

Ask yourself this, how would you feel and what would you do, if someone made that statement about you on a public forum? I know what I'd do.

I'm certainly not suggesting it's the case here - or otherwise, but don't for a moment make the mistake of thinking all outfitters are crooked and all clients are honest..... believe me, there is a small number of flaky and/or unreasonable clients out there as well the occasional dodgy outfitter........

404,

I'd like to say that I'm NOT attacking you in any way. - I just feel that it's unjust for you to attack a man and his business in such a way that he cannot or will not defend himself and put his side of the argument. As a lawyer yourself, I hope you'll appreciate my point.

Anyway, I've made my point and as I'm not a member of the internet police, I don't think I have any further comment on this, so I guess I'm outta here..... hope everyone has a great Christmas.

Byeeeeee

With all due respect, shakari, what a load of happy BS.

Opinion cannot be libel. Nothing personal, but I hope you are a better PH than you are a lawyer.

And Merry Christmas to you, too.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Hold on guys, since when did I need your approval or permission to make a post of any kind.

My point is that what's happening here is that one side of the argument is being heard and not the other. I have no idea if what is claimed happened or not, (frankly, I don't care) but neither do you know what actually happened.- Which is why I said the place to take this is a (Namibian) court of law, where both sides can have their say. Trial by internet is always a very dangerous and unfair thing.

In that same vein, why does 404 need you or anyone else's permission to say what he wants to say?

As far as the other side of the story goes, Mr Nell has email so he can get to the internet. He could always register here and tell his side of the story. No one here yet has told him what he can and cannot post.

Thank you to Mrlexma and Fjold, I appreciate your points of view.

Steve- I note yor comments about libel. Please note that I did not name the PH, and as such, it was just so much hot air. After being asked to name him, I wrote that I would wait for the Ministry people to make their findings.

Montana, sua sponte, and for reasons known only to him, started posting and basically let the whole world know who the PH was.

So, to the extent that there are statements that someone hopes to be actionable, I am not liable because I did not name the PH.

Second, and best- truth is a defense to any claim that a statement is libelous.

Third, Mrlexma's correct point re opinion vs, statement of fact.

Second point Steve- I cannot believe Montana posted Mr. Grellman's email to me on the net. I forwarded it to Montana because Montana represented Boet was saying there were no findings of fault and that I was making this up.

I forwarded the email to Monatana, to show him why I made my statements, and to hopefully show him that the person he was championing was not telling the whole story.

So- here it is, posted for all to see, that Mr. Grellman wrote to me, that Mr. Nel, in Mr. Grellman's words, "was sentenced to an admission of guilt and agreed to pay me".

Why would Mr. Nel say this to Grellman if it were not true? Why would Grelman write this to me if it were not true?

How can Mr. Nel come on this forum through his proxy, and say he was cleared on any wrongdoing?

yes, it is a fact that no action was taken against his license. No allegations of illegal hunting were found.

I advised the Ministry that we hunted (actively sought) cheetah with dogs. Mr. Beytell was livid and said this was illegal. (I did not know this). Mr. Beytell then pulled our licenses and told me we did not have a license for cheetah or leopard.

I wrote in my statement that we hunted cheetah with dogs, and provided photos of us in the truck, with the tick hounds.

Note that Montana also gave a statement to the Ministry, which apparently supported Mr. Nel and resulted in no hunting violations being found. So Montana, did you tell the Ministry that we were, in fact, out hunting cheetah with dogs? You knew we were, here is a quote from your post on my trip report thread:

"Monday everyone is up and at breakfast both land cruisers are out front and being readied for the hunt. Gert had left early that morning and there was no PH to hunt 404. I do not know Namibian law about hunting with or without a PH. I had hunted with Irvin Friday and felt he was fine plus he is taking his PH lisc. in Sept or Oct I think.. If this is against the law then it should not have happened and that is all the judgment I can render. Call me blissfully unaware. I do know that while I was out with Boet we stopped many times looking for Cheetah and a fresh track on 404’s behalf, I know he is unaware of that and at this point does not care but it happened."

So clearly, in Montana's own words, he was aware that

1. Nel sent us out hunting all day without a PH, in violation of hunting laws, and

2. We were out hunting cheetah (at least without a license, but Montana did not write we were trying to use dogs, though he was there when we briefed for the day and loaded the dogs).

I respectfully submit that there are no issues about "allegations" or "baseless claims".

In his own words to Grellman, Nel admits he was found at fault and owes me a refund.
In the words of his advocate Montana, who saw and wrote about it- there were at least two hunting violations.

One can read Mr. Grellman's analysis that we need to shoot a cheetah to violate the cheetah hunting law, though in the US if you are out pursuing game and have the means to take it, and without a license, you have violated hunting laws.

Oh well, the gravamen of my complaint was that we turned up and did not have a PH to hunt with. Even Montana, in his posts, acknowledges that Nel promised us a PH by Tuesday, but that the PH's wife called Monday and said the PH could not make it until Thursday. So can anyone really blame us for leaving?

I really took issue with the fact that he charged us for 5 days for the PH, which was to run from Thursday to Monday, and for whom we were to sit, wait and do nothing for three days till the PH rocked up. Also, that he basically berated my wife to the point she, then I walked out in the middle of dinner. Third, his rather heavy handed threat to leave us in camp alone unless we paid his inflated bill in full.

Listen, I hope everyone goes by and meets him at SCI- maybe you'll love him. I should be there too, and please say hello to me as well.

But lastly, considering the above, and his own statements, how can Nel come here and write that he has the full backing of NAPHA and the Ministry?

All I can say is that after reading this stuff, I will NOT book with this guy - too many questions and shady happenings. I'm looking forward to my hunt in June with someone that doesn't make the news or have any complaints against him.

quote:

All I can say is that after reading this stuff, I will NOT book with this guy - too many questions and shady happenings.

Same here. He had been on my list of potential outfitters for a Namibia safari I had hoped to do sometime. He is still on my list of Namibia links with a notation to avoid him.

I read a number of years ago about a person who had some type of business problem with a Russian company. He got a judgement against them in the U.S.A. and when one of their ships showed up in a U.S. port, the captain was given official notice that his ship was being taken in lieu of the outstanding debt. Hopefully, Boet Nel can be treated in a similar fashion.

Unfortunately, SCI's ethics committee doesn't have much credibility with me. They need to be a bit more aggressive in divesting themselves of bad apples.

Two years ago I considered booking a hunt with Boet but after doing a little research I found more than a few complaints that raised red flags. Booked with someone else who has a stellar reputation here and elsewhere.

Montana:

It is good that you are pleased with your hunt. Circumstances can significantly affect different people's perception of the same events, so I won't get into any of the differences of opinion that you and 404 seem to have.

In another post, I read that you spent $14,000 with Boet Nel. I was flabbergasted at this figure since my son and I had hunted in Namibia in June and spent about half of this amount adding BOTH of our costs together -- and together we took 18 head of game. I looked at his daily rates and trophy fees on his website. Are you aware that he is from 50% to 100% higher than many reputable guides on both? It is difficult to see how this is justified. Do you feel he offered you "twice" the hunt that other guides can? I also note that Mr. Nel charges $550 for cleaning and preparing your trophies for shipment. Are you aware that most guides do this at no added expense?

I think it is great that many on this site basically advertise or promote a given provider. We need to know what is available @ what cost and from whom. WE also IMO need to hear not only the good but the bad and the ugly as well. Usually if smoke is emanating from several directions there is fire. Having had no really bad experiences in Africa and none involving a provider I feel fortunate. However, if I ever do it will be posted on AR to help others avoid a bad experience.

I appreciate reading these reports. I'm sorry to hear that not all PH's are fine, upstanding citizens, but of course that is true in every profession. It is imperative to air these greivances in as factual a manner as possible, so that others can know what (and who) to avoid in the future. The only thing that keeps some of these borderline PH's honest is the fear of this type of public embarrassment.

Thanks for helping me be better informed.

Bill

somebody said: "the infomation for the war" not the war for the info" is good for all of us, know what happens in the hunting bussines.
who is who and listen boths bells.Not discuss between us, try to censored or disqualified topics just for wrong place choosed to post it or because you dont like it.
Its simple, if you dont like it, dont read it.Thanks for sharing.

I was informed that this month's Hunting Report published my bad trip report and Mr. Nel's reply. I purchased the report.

I have prepared a response and submitted it to Hunt Report.

I cannot reproduce the report here, as I, and presumably others, need to subscribe to the Report or purchase the individual report ($0.99), and therefore I don't want to interfere with Mr. Causey's business model.

I am posting about it here because of statements in his response that directly contradict statements made by Montana as an "eye witness", and becasue I was informed that this statement was identical to the one Nel submitted to the Ministry.

His reponse is full of misstatements, and really tries to paint my wife and I in a bad light. Of particular note were his claims that

-I put the scope of my rifle on incorrectly (?) and that he had to sight in my rifle (?) - meaning I am sort of a moron,

-that we wanted to do a photo safari tour to Swakopmund (I don't have any idea where or what this place is),
and that he told us where to rent a car and what to see (?) pure fantasy, I think designed to show himself as some sort of reasonable guy

-all the talk of offering a special side trip to my wife is an absolute fabrication

-that I threatened him in his lodge to take him to court and report "to all organizations" then he asked me to pay his bill and I did. Sort of internally inconsistent-I went nuts on him at his lodge, then he asked me to pay and I did? In fact, I argued about the bill, but was generally pretty meek and non threatening basically because my wife was shivering in our tent from fear, and I just wanted this nonsense to end

-Most appalling was his statement that after our last dinner my wife stood up and complimented him on his camp and his staff. As stated before, he was smirking and in my opinion taunting her to such a degree that she stood up and walked out in the middle of dinner because of his boorishness.

This guy is so cleverly manipulative in his responses, and seemingly is quite content to call black as white that the terms "creepy" and "pathological" come to mind, and I feel the need to respond in detail. According to him, not only did I agree to no PH, but he was such a peach of a guy he offered to let me HUNT FOR FREE! and shoot warthogs for camp rations FOR FREE!

And he was so nice that even though we left him in a lurch, after buying food and reserving a PH for us, he sent us off happy, full of compliments for him and his staff and with tips on good sightseeing spots for our trip.

Truly amazing

Yet this is the same peach of a guy, Mr. Reasonable dealing with a wacko client (ME) who, as you can read in his emails above, "reported" my wife for illegal hunting:

I quote: " Also did Mr. Beytel promise to look into the permit issue for 404's wife and then take it from there because that is illegal if she had hunted on his permit"

This is the first time I had heard or read anything directly from Mr. Nel about my complaint. I hit some especially egregious points above, but want to raise two other issues of significance below.


There are two points which I would like to make. Mr. Nel has asserted a fact pattern in his Hunting Report response, and this fact pattern is largely suppported by Montana, both here and with statements submitted to the Ministry.

As readers may recall, the Ministry took no action against Mr. Nel for hunting violations.

The first issue is whether I was informed that there would be no PH for several days. Mr. Nel and Montana say I was.

In his Hunting Report response, Mr. Nel claims that I telephoned him at 2 am his time to confirm the hunt, and that it is in this conversation that he told me there would be several days without a PH.

Yet Montana writes, as evidence of the correctness of Mr. Nel's position, that I was told of the "no PH" issue, because Montana was a first person eyewitness. I quote Montana from earlier in this thread:

quote:

I still feel as in the email I replied to that your whole hunt went south with the last phone call you made to Boet b-4 leaving the Sates and that there is a misunderstanding there somewhere. As I was sitting on the couch when when Boet got off the phone and said you were on the way. That he had advised you that there would be some days you did not have a PH. As this was my first question to him ,he stated he told you this and you were ok with it. This is within seconds of him hanging up the phone that this conversation was held.

M

REALLY? Was the call made as Mr. Nel sates it was, at 2 am Namibia time, with Montana actually sitting on the couch at 2 am? And did Montana then have a conversation with Mr. Nel about the PH issue at 2 am?

I think that Mr. Nel and Montana need to get their stories straight. Which is it? Did I call at 2 am, as Mr. Nel writes, or was it (persumably) during the daytime or early evening when Montana was sitting on the sofa in the lounge, say from 7 am until 10 pm? Either Montana or Mr. Nel are misrepresenting the facts of the call. Or is this yet another fact that is fabricated? Or is Montana mistaken in his recollection of events?


I know when the call was made, amd what was said in the call "I had a cancellation and I am absolutely free" is what Nel told me. Only when I arrived in his camp on Sunday did he tell me there would be no PH until Tuesday. Then, Monday evening he told me the Ph would come Wednesday- what time I asked, and he said Wednesday evening. So in actuality, there would be no PH until Thursday. He offered us to tag along with Montana to the mountains the next morning, which we declined. So we had a choice to sit in his camp for three days hoping the PH would finally turn up, or hunker down somewhere in the mountains and watch Montana hunt, or leave. We left, yet Mr. Nel insisted we pay for the PH he "booked" for us for Thursday through Monday- which he collected before he would transport us to Windhoek.

The second issue deals with the hunting violations. Mr. Nel writes in his Hunting Report response that I did not inform him I wanted to hunt cheetah and leopard before my arrival, therefore he did not take out a license for me, and intended to do so in Windhoek, and that we did not hunt cheetah.

Montana, as I quoted earlier in this thread, wrote that Mr. Nel was trying hard to make my hunt a success by looking for cheetah sign while he was out with Montana, and while I was rolling around with the young boy, the trackers and the cheetah hounds.


Again---which is it? Did we hunt cheetah or not? Mr. Nel says no, Montana confirms yes, and I know we did.

So Montana, you have still not answered my earlier question to you: In your statement to the Ministry, did you tell them that we were hunting cheetah, with dogs (against the hunting laws) and without a license? If you did not, why didn't you? Because it would harm Mr. Nel? I am sure you did not, else the Ministry would have taken action. So are you a selective conveyor of facts, or are you truly willing to put out the whole story, warts (for Nel) and all?

I can say maybe Mr. Nel screwed up and didn't take out a license, although I have two emails which I can forward to anyone, from him and his girlfriend/assistant, saying that there are plenty of cheeetah on his hunting areas and that the farmers want them shot, and another that Mr. Nel is excited to hunt them with me.

OK so he made a mistake with the licenses. But hunting cheetah with dogs is illegal and Mr. Nel does it. He then also misrepresents this and claims he does not do it when he is confronted with it.

These are not good traits in a PH, or in anyone I may choose to do business with.

Lastly, Montana writes that he has decided I am a vindictive person. I suppose some may think I am in this circumstance, but had I not continued to push, this would have died long ago with no result or outcome.

I will be at SCI and I will accept a cash refund of the full amount we paid to Mr. Nel. Yes, he fed and housed us for two nights, but he also caused us plenty of grief and stress, and continues to do so with his actions. If anyone sees him at SCI, please ask him about this issue, and I hopefully will meet some of you there as well.

boy i wish this subject would die..........

quote:

Originally posted by hikerbum:
boy i wish this subject would die..........

Your reaction is understandable, but the VERY believable offended party has convinced "me" to avoid that particular PH like the plague.
Alex

I actually wish the PH would "do the right thing" and settle this issue with 404. While I don't know either party, nor do I know the "facts" of this situation, it is clear that this PH continues to dig a hole for himself, and his actions after the "incident" speak even louder than his purported failing on the safari. Few, if any, reputable PH's would behave in this manner.
Bill

I wish it would die as well.

quote:

Originally posted by martinbns:
I wish it would die as well.

For you and hikerbum above it would be dead forever if you don't click on this thread. Try it if it bothers you.

Personally I admire a man who pursues his vision of what's right.

For those that wish this topic to "just die", why do you click on it?

Just curious.......

Did the meeting of parties take place at SCI and if so.....

404,

What was the outcome at SCI?

Thanks,

Northway

Hmmm this has gone quiet - time to stir it up again...

404 - if you were hunting cheetah with dogs and didn't get one either - there were no cheetah in the concession or, the PH had no intention of geting one.

Me thinks there was no permit/tag available

Hmmm... or maybe because hunting Cheetah with dogs are ILLEGAL

"in 22 years I had guided over 1100 trophy hunters"

WOW. That is 50 hunters a year on average since 84.

Any of you other PHs out there ever guide 50 clients in a single season?

jb