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Jesus that was painful. What dunce gave this 5 stars? Jeff | |||
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Sorry to hear about your poor experience. Not surprising though. We had a similar situation when booking through Adam Clements. | |||
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If you read the repoort, here was the first screwed chance. Tom on bait the night the of 15th.   Sat the 16th till 11:00 then told, " We must leave" read the report. Oh well , what do I know..... Note the time.....  Then he states we sit the next night, Why, he's eaten 100lbs in 2 nights,I was all for it but he won't be back. Oh well what do I know..... He doesn't come back. Told not enough bait...Hmmm CRACK, BREAK..... Read the story....then we DON"T SIT on the 18th But what do I know..... He's back and we aren't in the blind, we don't even have a blind anymore at that site.... Oh well.  Same camera, switched tree about 5 feet away. Lost a nice tom on this one. I will never let another PH tell me what "WE" are doing on a hunt I'm paying for. More pics to come....I guess I'm dumb as dirt but if you have an active tom on bait you sit, Don't you? | |||
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It seems as though he DID NOT want you to score...maybe he already filled his quota for the area, or never even had a permit to begin with?? Stevie Wonder could see that that cat is a male. | |||
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Frank, this was one he did see as a tom , this wasn't the last night of the hunt. | |||
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After reading through this thread I am not clear that the px of the Leopard you have chosen to post is the one turned down on the last night of the hunt. It seems it was the first tom you saw on the trail cam but did not have the chance to shoot. Correct? | |||
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You are correct, this tom was on bait the 15th sat the 16th till 11:00 Ph said we have to leave,I was slightly pissed you might say... he came in 2 1/2 hours later. Sat in blind the 17th he never came in, I didn't expect him to, review report, then on the 18th the Ph said to not sit again and cat came in , last picture. 2 lost chances by bad desicions. The trail cams pics from the next to last night to come.... | |||
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Looks like your hunt was intentionally sabotaged by your PH...why else would he make the choices he did?? I'm sure that "through the grapevine" your PH is aware of this post....I would like to hear his version of what happened. | |||
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Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent report. I think your decision to not shoot the male was a good decision. As a taxidermist you have handled many many leopards so I do not doubt that what you saw was a male Tom. I do feel sorry for your Mrs. though....taking a spouse along on a leopard hunt is probably something I would never have done. I can't even imagine her being stuck in the city for 6 days with people whom she did not know, and their unwillingness to bring her back to the camp....my wife would have left me LOL  So sorry to hear about your bad experience, I really do. Good luck on your Marco Polo hunt, I wish you the best. | |||
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How many Leopard hunts has this been for you? It would seem you have extensive experience as you have documented disagreeing with your PH on how to conduct the hunt. Martin Pieters seems to think Gary is a highly qualified PH. When others say the PH intentionally sabotaged the hunt...is that what you think? | |||
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I have a sneaking suspicion that you are a Zim PH...am I correct?? You have 4 posts and chose to make this one 5?? Hmmm
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The First moring we started checking baits. The first baits were over an hours drive from camp at the north end of the properties and had been out for 6 days. Nothing had hit any of the 4 baits in this area of about 15 sq miles except genets and honey badgers. My first thought was; " What’s going on ?, and, why continue with these unproductive baits?" Thats you first impression on the first morning ? Baits out for 6 days ?! We are now checking baits 2 weeks old and he still leaves then hanging....WHY? As I said in my earlier post I got my break on my +2 week old impala bait and thats in October heat! Ive seen leopards eating black maggot dripping beef like it was first rate kobe beef. The PH and is guys drag along a home speaker system, 3 feet high and 18” by 18” wide, ¼ mile up this hill and start calling. Did you want to take them without calling ? I have done this with Zambezi Hunters and calling in a hyenas is great fun! I doesnt always work but when it works  Once again I am told, we need another Impala. I am thinking; "Really ? Another useless bait Impala….what a waste... bang dead on the spot. Next day same routine, I’m so pissed I’m not even talking anymore. No pulling of baits and finding new places. Rotting impala doing no good anywhere, so he tells me "we need more bait"…. You seem to be offended by shooting baits ? A bait hunt, thats about all you do ? Baits baits and more baits. I cant even remember how many striped horses/donkeys/cattle/impalas/warthogs are in heaven just for my quest to kill a leopard. he agrees to get my wife out, and I’m going with her. I’ve had enough at this point. 12-14 baits up and no toms anywhere, so why not….only females and they are mostly walking past. He is excited but not me On day 7, come on Dennis! I know you hunted a couple of white lions in RSA successfully a few days before you moved over to Zim, but they dont come that easy in the wild...54 days it took me before I saw my first wild leopard. The light came on and the leopard was lying on the limb just like one of my golden retrievers holding the bone of my little calf between it’s front paws just gnawing away. The PH says nothing. I say that’s the male. He said, "I can’t tell." Well if the PH cant even tell if its a male or a female in 10 minutes, you really should pass. When you shoot the young males who is going to plant a seed in all the females your talking about in a few years. Has dog hunting affected this area? Dramatically, and it shows. Dog hunting let’s the PH target males much easier Why does it matter ? If you shoot two over baits or two with hounds ? Its illegal to take out females? Finally im feeling a little bit guilty for your bad hunt not all people match and I gave him very good reviews when you asked me. Gary worked his ass of on my hunt and really did my 3 weeks great. Martin Pieters: As for the rest of your issues you have some very valid points with regards hound hunting and it effect on populations . Why, let say that area can take 2 toms/year how can that effect if you hunt them by bait, track them or hunt them with hounds ??? " The leopards are going to die! If you take out more cats than the area can handle well thats something for someone to look at. | |||
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During the summer of 2008 I made a trip to the EC for plains game. I posted on a taxidermy website in regards to interest in any animal’s horns and skins as my finances, being a teacher, simply would not allow the large cost of bringing things home and the obvious taxidermy costs. My pictures had to be my trophies --as that is the reality of my world. Dennis Harris contacted me and gave his word that he would assume all costs for the shipment and asked that the animals be skinned for life-sized mounts (excluding an eland). In return, he promised that he would process the zebra for a rug and mount one animal at no cost to me. Obviously, the crate size and weight became very large due to his request for life-sized skins instead of shoulder mount capes. When the final bills were processed, they were too high in his opinion even though he is a seasoned taxidermist and should have known the costs before he agreed to the deal. He refused to pay the costs and stuck me with the bill which was thousands of dollars of which I did not have at the time (again, the reality of my world). His exact quote to me was, “It is just business.” Yes, I should have mandated a contract, on paper. However, where I live, a man’s word is something you can trust and depend on. I mention this to provide a small amount of insight into this thread as I wonder if we are getting the entire story. I would really like to see Mr. Hopkins response to the claims as this thread could greatly damage his reputation. A report like Mr. Harris’ with so much opinion and conjecture needs to be evaluated carefully by anyone who reads it. | |||
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I tell my employees all the time that "perception is reality." This means that what our clients think is the reality we have to deal with. Such is the case here. The client is clearly not happy. That is a problem for Mr Hopkins and I would also think for Safari Trackers. I know for fact that ST has advised some clients to cancel with quality outfits (Zambezi Hunters) to book a hunt with Mr Hopkins and his partner. I have to wonder why? Some of this is really hard to misinterpret. On the other hand (no offense intended),some (but not all) of it sounds like the talk of a person inexperienced with leopard hunting and a person that was impatient. Mounting leopards and hunting leopards are 2 different things. Leopard hunting is a monotonous, tiring hunt requiring a lot of driving and hanging many baits. It wears on your body and mind from lack of sleep. Someone has to sit in the blinds. Someone has to shoot the baits. Someone has to check the baits. Leopard hunting is one of those hunts that are far less than certain. I have gone home without my leopard several times. On the other hand, I have taken several really good leopards, at times with little effort. Clearly there was a tom in the tree. Why didn't Mr Hopkins have the client shoot? Only Mr Hopkins can answer that. I am willing to bet it was out of the fear of the penalties for shooting a female. I am sorry your hunt didn't turn out as you wanted it to. | |||
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No further suspicion necessary. I am a hunter and that is it. I do not frequent AR....often monitor it only. Since I have been on a number of cat hunts your post interested me. I think I have the jist of what happened. Sorry you did not get a cat but it sure sounds like your PH worked his butt off bringing cats in ...hey it is hunting ....not Albertson's or a canned hunt. | |||
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Sorry to hear about your disappointing Leopard hunt. In June 2011 I hunted with Gary Hopkins in the cold storage commission areas near West Nicholson on a dog hunt. While we did not harvest a Leopard It was a great hunt we worked hard every day starting at 2AM hitting the rack about 8 or 9PM We had 3 to 4 strikes where the dogs chased a leopard but lost the track. I saw one out of range being chased by the dogs along a kopi for a fleeing moment. My experience with Gary was that he was a hard working Professional honest PH who did his very best to to get a Leopard to the point of working himself to exhaustion. I have had been to Africa 8 times and Gary was one of the Harder working PH's out of a group of hard working PH's I thought we did our best knowing that Leopard can be elusive and there are no grantees. So I will try again this year. Hope you have better luck on your next hunt | |||
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Dennis Nice trail cam photos, sure has balls.... a little different though when the leopard is at 60 plus yards in low light , moving and you have 2 to choose from don't you think? Also from my experience, that leopard looks very small in relation to the impala, sort of like shooting a 2 year old lion, soft topped buffalo or a young elephant, that is if the last photo is the male! Just because it has nuts, does not mean it is a shooter! Just my observation from your trail cam photos. I am sure Gary will be able to explain exactly why he did not let you shoot though! Martin martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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What a glorious pair of balls! Was a very shootable cat as well. Leopardtrack is probably right in saying the quota was likely to have been exhausted or the outfitter sold 2 or more hunts. Could well be someone else came to hunt the same Leopard you fed and fattened. | |||
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Martin, never had the chance at that cat, I was told at 11:00 o'clock the night of the 16th " we have to leave" cat returned at 1:30. Then the night of the 18th we were not there, he had dismantled the blind and hung bait in another tree because the original branch broke and I was told " We have to let the cat get used to the tree and get back in it" As for your posts try to keep up here, your picking what you want to from other posts and not my original post, just as anton picks and chooses my lines to pick apart the report out of context. Kinda like I'm watching CNN Confabulated News Network..... This is not the last night, they were to be posted but I think I'm done here. When you talk to Gary , ask him about the conversation on the 11th day, " We will hunt even Sunday night if we have to to get a cat, your flight leaves monday morning so we will if we have to". We had 2 cats in a tree Friday night on camera, we hooked the camera chip up to my laptop and had 8 by 10's of the 2 cats, he said the larger tom was lighter and the female was darker and smaller, he told me if we can see him in the light shoot and if the 2 are in the tree together we will shoot the larger of the 2. This is him talking not me, I've let him run this whole show and have kept my cool and my mouth shut and let this play out for 14 days now. He never saw the 2 together I did and tried to tell him where she was to look, he never saw her. Both cats were unaware of us in blind. He had offered on last night over and above the 15 days. He offered and stated this on the 11th day . After we got out of the blind Sun morning and we had just had the 2 cats again in the tree, he removed the blind , at that point I knew the Sunday noight thing wasn't going to happen and within 2 hours had camp broken down loaded in the truck headed back to his house? I'm not going to continue with this and get into a rebuttal pissing contest on any further posts. His friends will defend him and I knew this going into my report. I would have been surprised if they didn't. So Anton, and Peiter and the others I commend you on your loyalty. That's a good thing. Gary's a nice guy. Gary did his contract I held my tongue and let his hunt play out. Would I hunt with gary again for leopard. Nope Would I recommend him as a Ph for ele and buff Yes. Anton, The time you spent on your post is commendable You pick and choose lines like CNN the Confabulated News Network and take out of context the words you want to use... Example : about shooting more Baits, It's not my fault that the cows were not lined up as was expected , per our conversations pre hunt, month's before. I had requested cows only for bait on this hunt. Larry, don;t take this the wrong way but, you have no idea what kind of patience it took for me to let this play out, I'm just a stupid ole hillbilly and I kept it all in and made this hunt non-confrotational and let the PH do what he does. My wife saw the stress each day and night after her return and knew I has headed soon to the hospital with my irregular heartbeat acting up from this. We talked and I told her we had to let it play out even tho I didn't like his choices to not sit. So I'll let this go to the Ph's and the seasoned cat hunters. If it looks likes a duck, acts like a duck and walks like a duck, you can come to the conclusion ...it's a duck. PS I don;t think the contract states TROPHY leopard anyway, when I booked this hunt I told Mark and Gary I wanted a to try for a leopard ANY LEOPARD, ANY legal leopard I am not a trophy hunter size did not matter. Peiter, from what your saying even if he could have pulled it all together this was Gary's choice NOT MINE ?. Well gosh if you look at it, It was Gary's Hunt not mine. I was just there to foot the bill, do what I was told and pull the trigger IF he decides it was a cat big enough for me to shoot. Thanks for the insight. This post is all yours. | |||
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Hello Martin, You are a HIGHLY RESPECTED PH and I take your comments VERY seriously. Since you are a friend of Gary's, perhaps you could ask HIM to reply to this post and to give his own personal account of what happened on this hunt?? So far we are hearing one side of the story and I think that we would all like to hear what Gary has to say. It would also be nice to hear what Adam Clemments has to say on this....we all know that he posts here and has most likely read this?? Step us fellas! | |||
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Leopardtrack, thank you for the vote of confidence, I will kindly ask Gary to post his side of the story as I believe that may help everyone get an idea as to what exactly transpired on the said safari. I cannot guarantee that he will post, my comments were not personal and were definitely not directed at anyone, they were purely observational as per Dennis's post, and I hope members of this forum took them as such. Martin martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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Dennis, I would like to add to the discussion if I may. First, please understand I am not trying to discredit your experience, just add some perspective. Reading your report is painful for sure and I feel for you and understand the frustration. I don't have a lot of leopard hunting experience. Two hunts, both successful. One with a spotlight in the Tuli block of southern Zim and another without the aid of spotlights in Makuti. First, the one with the spotlight. On the third night, my PH said we needed to leave because the cat knew we were in the blind. He said he heard him "Cough" behind us. We left and he hit the bait a couple of hours later. The cat did in fact wait for us to leave before hitting the bait. It's possible your PH was correct in leaving and the fact that the cat hit latter that night is no guarantee that it would have hit if you stayed later. On the issue of who could see what with the light on. When my cat (different cat, different bait) hit on night 5 we had some issues. First, we had a trail camera. Big Tom! Big tracks. He had scratched the tree, and log, and an area on the ground. Sprayed the area with urine and marked his prize. OK, cat is in the tree, light won't come on (big spotlight hooked up to car battery). PH takes my SureFire and lights up the tree. He and my SA PH friend that was along to film can see the cat plainly. For the life of me, I can't see it. The rifle is strapped down, pointing 12" above the limb and I CAN'T SEE IT. I'm beginning to panic. In the ensuing discussion of trying to talk me onto him, we all panic. When I finally see it in the scope, the PH says take him now. I do. Guess what? A big female! What happened? Well, using a light is actually a challenge in itself. Not the shooting fish in a barrel that some might think. My not being able to see it caused a distraction that caused the PH to become focused on talking me onto it, instead of verifying nuts. After all, the trail cam, tracks, and feeding pattern all indicated that only a male was visiting the bait. This female came out of nowhere this particular night. Second hunt. We had 11 baits spread out over 98 kilometers. It took 5 to 6 hours every day to check them all. I had my youngest son along on his first safari. He shot my baits. For 12 days, we had nothing but females feeding with the exception of 1 small male. We sat on that small male on day 9 but passed him because Rich Tabor, my PH, could not verify nuts in the early morning light prior to its getting out of the tree. My son was bored from riding on the high rack with the putrid smell of guts in the bucket, everyday for nearly 2 weeks with very limited opportunities to get off the truck, track and hunt something. And then it was for bait. Mental depression was beginning to take hold by lunchtime on day 12 with no cats feeding, except 2 females, and only 1 remaining bait to check before going back to camp. That last bait was the one where we sat the small male. We had given up on that one and planned to take it down. When we got there, it had been smashed. A huge Tom on the trail camera!! From the lowest of lows, to the highest of highs in 10 seconds flat! We built another blind. Then the hammer dropped. Rich said we can't sit this evening (day 12) because the wind is wrong. Inside, I'm in turmoil. Back to the lowest of lows. Time is running out. But I've hunted leopard twice, Rich has made a living out of it. It was a hard decision to accept. I'm sure it was a hard decision to make for Rich. We got into the blind early the next morning, well before daylight. We listened to that cat in the tree, smashing the bait in total darkness at 34 yards for two hours. Just hoping he stayed around until shooting light. About 10 seconds after legal shooting time, the cat hit the ground with a 180gr TTSX bullet behind the shoulder. It worked out. The point being that by that 13th morning when it finally happened, we had sat a total of 2 times. We had baits in the tree that were two weeks old and just about all day of every day was spent checking baits. When not checking baits, we were hunting for additional baits. Such is the nature of a leopard hunt. My first hunt produced a cat, but we had issues with who could see what in the dark with the spotlight. A mistake was made and I ended up shooting a female. My second hunt produced a cat but up until that 13th morning, it was similar to yours. Not much action and a lot of driving checking rotten meat hanging in trees. It could easily have taken 15 days for a big Tom to show up. In that case, my hunt would have been unsuccessful with only 1 or 2 total blind sits in 14 days. Rich knew his business, I did not. He and his team worked hard to make the hunt a success but if the cat had not cooperated, no amount of work on his part would have turned it around. On the surface, it does seem that your hunt had some issues. But I see similarities to both of mine. I'm not sure it was that far out of the norm for a leopard hunt. That being said, a leopard hunt IS outside the norm of a typical safari. I hope you give it another try because it really is a great chess game. And I hope your next attempt is successful! | |||
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preserved for posterity | |||
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Very painful to read but informative. Thank you for sharing this tale. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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As a PH I can see very little wrong with Gary's decisions and hunt methods. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Fairgame, I realize it is virtually impossible to armchair quarterback or second guess the decisions and methods when we weren't there. But the surliness? That is unacceptable from a PH. Jeff | |||
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Jeff, There are two covers to a book my friend. Whilst I do not begrudge the report I thought the leopard hunting techniques and decisions by the PH were not really the problem here. Gary has a very good reputation here in Africa and I cannot quite believe the accusations. The hunting of wild cats can be extremely frustrating and monotonous and the hunter has to be prepared for this, and indeed the fatigue and the possibility of failure. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I don't know anyone involved in this but have heard of Gary and have only ever heard good things about him...... however there are some claims in this post that smack of utter bunk. An example of this can be found in the claim of tom to female ratio...... Hell, even experienced zoologists can't usually make an accurate assessment of that after months, often years of study so I wonder how a client can do that after just a few days? Let's also remember that if two adult leopards are going around together it means they're mating and when mating, they ain't doing much eating and if they ain't doing much eating, they ain't gonna settle on the bait for long AND one of the breeding pair has to be a female and the PH needs time to get a bloody good look to be 110% sure which cat the client can shoot. Until he's 110% sure, he'd be a fool to let the client shoot. As for the criticism of old baits....... the complaints show why the client uses a PH because the truth is leopards very often prefer an old, stinking, rotten, dripping bait to a piece of fresh meat. As for the comments about how much more successful a dog hunt would be, if a client books a bait hunt then that's what he gets but changing the format from one to the other at the last moment ain't really a goer because you can't wave a magic wand and have a pack of dogs and handlers appear in a puff of smoke in these situations. A leopard hunt is like a chess game & often hard on a client's nerves but the best thing he can do is trust in his PH. Esp if that PH is an experienced cat man. | |||
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I can see why the client is frustrated and wrote the report he did. I can also see why the PH community has defended the PH involved in this hunt. I recently concluded my first very unsuccessful leopard hunt. 16 days (14 hunting) and not a single mouthful of bait taken by a leopard although if you want a honey badger I know where you can take a whole herd. Leopard tracks were plentiful but they were not feeding. Was I frustrated--yes. Was the PH frustrated--yes. Did I sometimes mentally second guess what he was doing--yes. Before it was over was he seconding guessing himself--yes. Was I tired of driving--hell yes and so was he. Did we use the term "it is leopard hunting" too much, probably. But that is what it is. Seeing a cat on a trail cam sitting at the base of a tree staring at a bait and then leaving is a terrible feeling. When it was over we (both the PH and me) got along just fine, just as we had the whole hunt. He tried very hard and it didn't work. He told me that I handled a really hard situation as a gentleman and I appreciate that since to do otherwise would not have helped the situation. I'm going back with him next year and maybe I will be the guy like he had last year who took a tom his first night out. Reputations mean a lot in this business and unsuccessful hunt reports certainly have a place on these forums. I can't say what did or did not happen but I do hope the PH comes up on the net and gives his version and I wish the hunter much better luck in the future if he continues to pursue leopard. Regards, Don Trust only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong. | |||
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A terrific point. | |||
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Don, Good attitude mate. It is always disappointing not to get your cat especially considering the costs involved. The stresses PH's go through are often suppressed and I for one start questioning my methods and strategies if things do not go right. The hunt can turn out to be little more than a shoot for baits and this can take the gloss off a safari. However to take one of the world's most impressive animals is an absolutely amazing experience. It would seem that this year the Leopard are outsmarting us. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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One can debate the methods the PH used ad nauseum. However there are a number of issues which go beyond the hunting method. The paying client states he wanted the baiting to be done only with cattle. Why wasn't it? Surely the client (customer) should get what he asked for or otherwise a vary careful explanation of why his specific request cannot be met? A good PH needs to be a good hunter but he also needs to be a good communicator. It may be "just another leopard hunt" for the PH but it may be "the lifetime leopard hunt" for the client. JCHB | |||
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There could be several reasons for that and only the PH involved could answer the question accurately but just a couple of possibilities could be that he felt it better not to put all his eggs in one basket and after all, if there are impala in the area, you can bet your life the cats will sometimes eat them or as I'm sure you know (as you're in KZN & the Zulus love their cattle as much as Africans in most other places do) it could be the locals simply didn't want to sell their cattle. Another thing we should perhaps bear in mind is that it's very easy to misread the situation....... Those trail cam pics for example show a clear shot of the cat's nuts but let's not forget the camera would be VERY close to the bait AND give a totally different and much closer view to the view the PH would have had. There's also nothing in that pic to show the size of the cat....... it could have been the biggest tom in Christendom or it could just as easily have been a youngster. I'm not suggesting that any particular person is or is not to blame just that blame shouldn't be allocated until the whole story is heard at the very least....... it could well be that no-one is to blame and the hunt was simply unsuccessful because that's the way leopard hunting sometimes is. | |||
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However it is refreshing to read the hunters account and for him to outline his concerns. I am not saying the PH was not at fault but rather not sure I can fault his methods and baiting strategy considering his good reputation and indeed his previous success on Leopard. Now and again hunter and PH will clash and now and and now and again we screw up which just goes to show we are human after all. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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PH, screwed up! Human! What!  , must remember not to book with you....   | |||
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Fairgame is the best there is there Ozzie. Andrew, My point was there seemed to be a lack of communication that could have answered the problem or perceived problems. I seem to remember a bushbaby wrecking a leopard sit for you and I. Let's say I didn't know what was what (happens frequently) and we left without further explanation, could lead to questions. Not siding with the cleint, but seems discussions could have allayed fears and annoyances. Jeff | |||
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Valid point Jeff. | |||
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Totally agree and communication is very important. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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It is highly likely that the leopard dog hunting has ruined the area. Read what Wayne Grant has to say about Leopard hunting with dogs in his book "Into The Thorns". I am truly sorry to hear of your unsuccessful hunt.