The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Hunting Reports - Africa Buyer Beware - Umdendi Lifestyle SafarisGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Buyer Beware - Umdendi Lifestyle Safaris | Login/Join |
| new member |
Having booked a dual centre safari with Umdendi Lifestyle Safaris, fishing in Mozambique (one star accommodation provided) and croc hunting near Nelspruit, I noticed that Umdendi had made a mistake with the dates in between the two activities. When I pointed this out, Umdendi said they intended to have one of their employees drive my car up to Nelspruit with my rifles to meet me at Nelspruit on the way back from Mozambique, as I was not allowed to take my rifle into Mozambique. When I pointed out that it was illegal to transport my rifles, risking imprisonment for the driver who wouldn’t be insured to drive the hire car anyway, and confiscation of my rifles. They then proposed to charge me $850 for one extra days stay for 3 of us, collecting the car and rifles from Vrihyde. When I refused they said the journey could be done in one day (13 hours travelling), I finally paid for the overnight stay myself $200. One of the prepaid fishing days was partially cancelled due to bad weather and it was written into my contract that if the captain cancelled due to bad weather I would be refunded, and I agreed to a 2/3 refund (with Theo Roelofsz, Umdendis representative in Mozambique) for the day. After shooting the croc I was presented with my final invoice with no refund for the cancelled fishing day. When I disputed the invoice I was told by Theo I would not be allowed to leave the hunting ground until I paid in full by debit card at a charge of 4%. We were two old age pensioners and a handicapped son in a fenced and gated reserve with a plane to catch that day, I had no option but to pay to get home. This was our third trip with Umdendi, we had had minor problems before, but we will never book with them again. Mike Allen | ||
|
one of us |
4% on a debit card is rediculous. The interchange rate for them is next to nothing. Sorry to hear of you bad experience, but if you had small issues with them before, why rebook? ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
|
One of Us |
How do you partially cancel a day of fishing? | |||
|
| Administrator |
Very strange indeed! We go on full bag dangerous game hunts, where the daily rate is relatively high. We have had occasions where we could not leave camp due to rain. It never occurred to me to ask for a refund. | |||
|
One of Us |
Threatening to hold you captive is a form of duress, blackmail, kidnapping for ransom - call it what you will. If true, the man is nothing more than a criminal. "...it was written into my contract that if the captain cancelled due to bad weather I would be refunded, and I agreed to a 2/3 refund" - I would demand a refund for the extorted amount and an apology. Have you contacted Clayton Comins about this? . | |||
|
| One of Us |
It makes perfect sense for a fishing trip. There are next to no expenses if the boat never leaves dock - no fuel expended, no crew needed, no need to gather bait, no gear used, etc. And the captain can stay home drinking his favorite beverage and watching DVDs. . | |||
|
| Administrator |
Does that mean if a boat and crew is booked, and it rains, they do not get paid?? In the hunting camp, the truck does not get used either, but all staff have to be paid, no difference from a boat crew. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Of course booked staff must be paid. Note that he said the refund was to be only 2/3 of the booked price. Usually, the greatest expense in a fishing trip is the fuel. No fuel was expended. Regardless, he said the conditions of the refund were in the contractual agreement. FYI - Umdende's Terms of Booking ( http://umdende.com/terms-of-booking/ ) specify "Credit card (VISA, MasterCard- 4%, AMEX- 5% service charge is applicable)". There should be no, zero, zilch charge for a debit card. If the client had used a credit card he could have contacted his bank to initiate a charge-back. He cannot do that with a debit charge. I think Mike Allen should contact the company owner to try to get the dispute put right. He also has the opportunity to post a full report and review on Umdende's Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/UmdendeHuntingSafaris/. In my mind it would be a simple dispute of charges to be taken up with the management. That is, until being told, "I would not be allowed to leave the hunting ground until I paid in full by debit card" at which point I would be wondering where my guns were and thinking about what it would take to bust out. Holding someone hostage puts everything in a different light. . | |||
|
| One of Us |
Change it to a half day? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Commonly falling under the clause Terms of Liability and "force majeure" where the outfitter is unable to control the elements.  | |||
|
| Administrator |
I don't have an agreement, just use common sense instead!  | |||
|
| new member |
Yes contacted Clayton Comins he said he had already paid the Mozambique invoice in full, without checking with his guy on site that he would try and get me a refund, but he has done nothing, therefore I am paying for his mistake | |||
|
| One of Us |
Common sense is not easy to come by with some individuals as they demand a bang for their buck regardless of any natural or unpredictable setback.  | |||
|
One of Us |
Jeez, I hope you never go on a sheep hunt. Imagine paying over $12,000 and up to $40,000 for a hunt where, when it rains bad, you spend the day laying on your sleeping bag inside a small tent, playing cards with your Indian guide for hours or days on end while waiting for the weather to clear and you don't get any refund whatsoever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Apples and oranges. A fishing trip is priced to cover considerable costs incurred by the outfitter if the trip proceeds but which are not incurred if the trip is cancelled. In your scenario staff and outfitter costs remain the same for a day in the tent as they would be for a day in the field. Where in a day at the sheep camp are several dozen gallons of boat fuel consumed? What are the sheep camp costs for maintaining a boat and fishing equipment, supplying bait, and replacing expended or lost tackle? I bet if your contracted sheep hunt included the cost of a plane trip between two different regions and weather canceled that trip you'd feel cheated if you were still charged full price for the flight that never took place. Regardless, pooh poohing of expenses the client should or shouldn't be willing to endure is meaningless because he said he had a contract covering those expenses and said the contract was not honored. Or do you think contracts should be trumped by outfitters who arbitrarily decide not to honor them in the field and extort extra payment by threatening to hold clients hostage? . | |||
|
| One of Us |
Rebuttal to the above situation is posted on another forum: https://www.africahunting.com/...s.39943/#post-385981 Read and judge for yourself. Bruce | |||
|
| One of Us |
Interesting to say the least. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The outfitters side of the story, frankly rings far more true...there were probably a couple of minor issues (like the 4% debit card fee...of course none of us know what the intermediaries in a place like Mozambique may charge. It may well be legitimate). And yes, it is absolutely the industry standard to refund a day on the sea cancelled due to weather. Mikes other post relishing in "rock bottom prices" on plainsgame gives a glimpse into his personality (meaning he is probably a cheap fu$*er) People that jump onto multiple forums to trash people also show a glimpse into their personality (meaning he is probably every bit of the asshole the explanation makes him appear) Thus it seems there were minor issues but he is also real asshole and sometimes you reap what you sow. I've always found in life being respectful of others will get you far...people are for more willing and likely to want to help you and work with you if they like you and want to. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have hunted with Clayton and had an outstanding hunt. | |||
|
new member |
As we have received this same complaint on AH.COM from Mr Mike Allen, here is our response again. As any Hunting Outfitter or Professional in our industry it is disappointing to receive a negative report, especially considering the endless effort our Team put into this specific Safari for Mike Allen and his amazing son Andrew, who unfortunately suffers from a debilitating condition. Yes Mike Allen has booked 3 Safaris with us and despite complaints about him from our Team, his son Andrew, being the hunter, touched many of our PH’s hearts with his pure determination and ethical hunting, despite his obstacles. Our Team persisted on both the first two Safaris to oversee Mike’s blatant rudeness and disrespectful treatment of our Team to ensure Andrew’s dreams were accomplished. As one can appreciate the logistics involved of hunting with a handicapped Gentlemen come with far more planning ahead of time for extra hands needed to carry Andrew where needed and a Team with complete patience to work within Andrew’s capabilities. Unfortunately, after the second Safari our Team, especially the PH’s, requested to no longer work with Mike Allen on Safari for many reasons that were justifiable. On booking his third trip our new PH Theo kindly agreed to lead this Safari despite our Team’s explanation of who he would be dealing with, which included a fishing trip to Mozambique – again far more logistical preparation required to ensure Andrew was well cared for. Mike Allen’s detailed itinerary including all inclusions and exclusions was discussed at length with Mike prior to his Safari and despite this his interpretation of his days was misread by himself meaning he had to pay for an extra day. Returning the Skippers boat due to sea sickness does not incur a refund in any fishing industry. Transportation of rifles without the owner requires the valid permits from the South African Central Firearms Registry in advance, a law that our Team is well aware of having been in this Industry for over 30 years. A procedure we were more than willing to arrange for Mike Allen to assist him with his private transportation issues. Yes our Team was warned by 2 fellow Outfitters when they heard of Mike Allen’s first booking with us, but it is only fair to give the client a chance. Over his 3 Safaris our Team dealt with a man that went behind our backs contacting our concessions and lodges directly to get a better deal, shouting at them when they had no availability. Our Team and Concessions are proud to work within ethical and respectful guidelines of each other’s clients. Sending our PH’s rude WhatsApp’s as to why they no longer wish to hunt with him. Settling bills long after return from his Safari as he always made up issues. When Mike Allen finally went too far in the treatment of our Team prior to his 3rd Safari, our attempt to refund Mike a cancellation deposit for his third Safari, was turned down as this did not suit him. Our Team agreed to continue with his Safari based only on the fact that we did not wish to ruin a lifetime trip for Andrew, and this was also communicated to Mike Allen. I (Clayton Comins – Owner of Umdende Hunting Safaris) have been a member of Accurate reloading for many years now and I am proud of what ARL does to ensure members are made aware of unethical Outfitters and Professional Hunters in our industry. However, from an Outfitters side, we also need to ensure our fellow Outfitters and their Teams are made aware of these ‘types’ of clients that use and abuse your resources, your Team and your expertise. Umdende Hunting Safaris, as many fellow Outfitters do, go the extra mile to make our clients dreams come true, but please guys, do not make our mistake of subjecting your Team to such treatment. A lesson well learnt but a lesson that reminds us again of how appreciative we are for the excellent reviews received and the wonderful clients we have had this year and in the past. Please feel free to contact me directly should you require any further details +27834079899. Happy Hunting ahead. Clayton Comins and our Team at Umdende Hunting Safaris | |||
|
| Administrator |
Thank you Clayton. It is always good to hear the side of the story. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am always suspicious of someone who comes on here as a new member with the apparent sole purpose of only doing someone harm. I have used this line before. A bitch move. Jeff | |||
|
| new member |
Is this the same Clayton Cummins who asked could he visit me at my house in the UK to discuss my hunting requirements both this year and last year? Last year being accompanied by a PH that he claimed did not want to hunt with me again and accepted my hospitality. I only ever hunted with one PH prior to this hunt (not 2) and he was independent of Umdende and had agreed to guide me on a Buffalo hunt this year separate from any arrangements I had with Umdende. This was unfortunately postponed to next year. I have never been rude to any PH, I have never sent a WhatsApp (I don’t know what one is). The fishing was cancelled at 6am by the skipper because of bad weather and had nothing to do with anybody being sick. Theo agreed and promised a 66% refund in line with the contract. This was overruled by Clayton when challenge, Clayton said “what can I do, I have already paid their invoice I will try to get you a refund.” He made the mistake, I had to pay. With regards to the firearms permit it was Clayton’s suggestion to transport the weapons without me, why then did he not make prior arrangements to do this or mention it at the time when I suggested it was illegal. This would have saved us a day or has he only just found out about this now? I did not know he had concessions, he charged me 3 times the advertised price at a lodge I stayed in with him and I told him I was looking to book there for this year as part of our holiday, independent of Umdende. They were booked up however and kindly directed me to Kubad Farm Lodge where we spent an idyllic week and would recommend it highly to anyone. We were only given the name of the lodge in Mozambique after we had paid for the Safari and why should we question Umdende’s judgement. Yes he did offer me a full refund but failed to put this offer in writing after 3 requests and then it was too late to make other arrangements. Yes I have complained in the past about Umdende’s mistakes but we have always come to an amicable arrangement. Like the time the office booked me a flight back from Namibia that made it impossible for me to make my connection back to the UK and then tried to charge me for the rebooking fee. I did not complain however, when he priced in for a PH to accompany me to Namibia but then substituted my friend Gideon who was unpaid hence pocketing 8 days PH fees and not offering a reduction. I did not complain when he refused a rebate for not having to pick me up at Johannesburg airport while the other outfitter I used (Thaba Thala) allowed me a £200 reduction. I cannot speak to highly of Thaba Thala, they were brilliant. 5* accommodation, Cordon Bleu Chef and rock bottom prices. I only wish Umdende could take a leaf out of their book. Everything I have said is the truth and I stand by everything that I have said. If required I can send transcripts of our dealings to the authorities to see if they still consider him a suitable person to be an outfitter/PH. Especially having noted that he has not denied holding us hostage to obtain payment of a disputed commercial invoice. Mike Allen | |||
|
| new member |
You have Contradicted yourself on your post from your blatant use of foul language and name calling to saying "I've always found in life being respectful of others will get you far" | |||
|
| Administrator |
A question Mike. Why did you hunt with an independent professional hunter if you were with them?? | |||
|
| new member |
Mike Allen - you, us and many others know this is not true! May Andrew enjoy his Trophies and successful Hunting in the future. Best Clayton Comins | |||
|
One of Us |
+1, one of the inherent dangers of the Internet. And more often than not, without ever hearing all sides of the story, the Internet intelligentsia jumps on the side of the initial poster vowing that the other person needs to be tarred and feathered or worse. Not sure there is a solution other than for folks to be a bit more skeptical of and reflective about what gets posted in a situation where a newcomer comes in with a complaint. But we have seen this similar situation played out enough times now to realize that will never happen. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mike, your English so I'll respond with a Churchill euphemism..."madam I may be drunk but you are ugly...in the morning I'll wake up sober...and you'll still be ugly" So yes, when inspired (and perhaps have a couple of Whiskeys in me)I may be a little more harsh and use "foul language" but when I woke up the next day sober....you are still an Asshole lol..... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I too have hunted with Clayton and find Mike recollection of events very hard to believe. Clayton is a good guy. I would hunt with him again in a second. Keep your chin up Clayton. Kind regards my friend. NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
|
| new member |
Andrew cherishes his trophies, especially the gold medal red lechwe he got at Thaba Thala this year, but this will probably be his last trip to South Africa as what you did unnerved his mother so much she is refusing to go back to South Africa hunting again, if she can be held hostage by her host, and Andrew needs her assistance. Theo Roelofsz was a big disappointment having accepted my tip, thanked me and shook my hand before giving me my final invoice knowing what he had agreed and what he was about to do. I hope he sleeps at night, I do. As the saying goes, ‘you can’t fool all the people all the time’, as your Facebook rating of 2.8 stars proves Mike Allen | |||
|
One of Us |
Here is some advice for everyone if you get in this situation as a client or an Outfitter. Video everything that is taking place with your iPhone. I had a client that was overserved the night before and was still drunk the next morning while duck hunting. He called me all sorts of names when I took his gun away. When he left, he got on a public waterfowl forum and started to bash my judgement. I posted the video of him slurring his words and stumbling around in the blind. He quickly deleted the post. If the Captain canceled the trip due to weather you should get all of your money back. If the weather was going to be bad but still fishable and you cancelled, then you should only loose your deposit. Regardless you should not have had to pay the full rate for a cancelled fishing trip. Your contract could state something different. Seems like your issue here should be with the boat captain. Everyone looks at events like this from a different perspective. How many fish did you catch your first day out? Was it not worth going because the fish were not there? Did anyone in your charter get sick the first day? Was it a three day charter package. Get a better price for fishing three days. From the website it looks like you launch right from the beach in an outboard so it was not like you were traveling that far offshore. Loosing deposits is part of this business. I have lost deposits the past four days from this Tropical Storm that brushed the coast of NC. Last month, I lost eight days because they evacuated Hatters Island after a construction crew cut the main underground power line. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Hunting Reports - Africa Buyer Beware - Umdendi Lifestyle Safaris
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia