Lion and Bull Elephant with CM Safaris May 2011

12 June 2011, 01:46

I too would love to see aanother thread on these important matters. maybe Saaed would open one on the topic for education purposes.

12 June 2011, 10:05

buckeyeshooter

Thank you for sharing a wonderful hunt. I particularly enjoyed your 'lions ass' photo, very appropriate for some

Looks to me like you shot great trophies!

13 June 2011, 01:42

williford

Rob,

Great lion and a very good decision on the elephant (still a very good elephant even if it had only one tusk). It was a pleasure to meet you and spend several days sharing the same camp.

John

13 June 2011, 08:18

Stealth

A wonderful and heartfelt hunt report. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I for one liked the photo of the tail-end of the lion!

13 June 2011, 22:15

Bryce Dillabough

Absolutely Awesome! Congrats!

13 June 2011, 23:26

matt u

Congratulations!!
Very nice trophies!

14 June 2011, 00:01

Northway

Congrats! Thank you for sharing! I love seeing the pictures and reading to stories on here about hunts that I realistically will never be able to do! Awesome!

14 June 2011, 16:07

gbax

Great report Robert and what a trip.

Good to see the pics that went with your recounting of the tale the other day. Hopefully you can show me the footage later this year.

Thanks again for your help - looks like it will have to be another plains trip this August. Need to start saving my pennies for a DG trip!

14 June 2011, 16:35

R.Jolly

Good morning Guy and welcome to the forum, I'm sure you will enjoy it.
As many on here will tell you - beware, African hunting is addictive !!

14 June 2011, 20:48

Tim Vining

Congrats on a great hunt. Your report was well done a very enjoyable read.

18 June 2011, 08:32

reddy375

Great hunt congratulations...Buzz and Myles are really good guys.

22 June 2011, 04:19

Todd Williams

Great hunt and exceptional report. I think I showed up for my Safari a couple of days after you left but I was in Makuti. I hunted Dande at Pedza with them last October. What a great hunting area. CM Safaris are the best IMO. Again, congrats on the hunt.

24 June 2011, 16:48

R.Jolly

I just learned that the lion skull has an SCI score of 25 6/16 which I am told makes it into the book.

24 June 2011, 17:30

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by R.Jolly:
I just learned that the lion skull has an SCI score of 23 6/16 which I am told makes it into the book.

An interesting fact is that lion skulls enlarge little if any after the age of 4.

for more details see: http://forums.accuratereloadin...671048751#8671048751

25 June 2011, 14:50

R.Jolly

ledvm
Thanks very much for the insight into your private discussion, I found it very intersting and also very comforting to know that my 25 6/16 scoring lion was not immature.
I am also sure that many members would be interested in this subject. Perhaps you and Aaron should start your own thread on the subject.
Regards
Robert

25 June 2011, 16:12

Caracal

Great report thx.

quote:
Originally posted by Bwanamich:
How do we use this lion (and the other recently posted) as an educational example without hurting any ones feelings or starting a ?

I think it won`t hurt someones feelings if you guys tell us how your estimation about this lions´ age. I have no idea how old he is.

25 June 2011, 18:19

MJines

Rob,

If that lion's arse looked anything like Buzz's after his nature walk, I would say it was not just mature, it was geriatric.

I enjoyed the stories from your hunt in camp. I thought you got two hyenas? I must have been confused.

Congrats on a great trip and a marvelous lion that was hard earned. I was also able to see your tusk at the office. Very nice indeed.

25 June 2011, 19:14

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by R.Jolly:
ledvm
Thanks very much for the insight into your private discussion, I found it very intersting and also very comforting to know that my 25 6/16 scoring lion was not immature.
I am also sure that many members would be interested in this subject. Perhaps you and Aaron should start your own thread on the subject.
Regards
Robert

Robert - I'm not totally following what your trying to say here?

I'm also confused by the post above, as your original post said your lion's skull was 23 6/16", and now its 25 6/16"?

Regardless, the lion is most likely 3 and possibly 4, maximum.

25 June 2011, 21:22

R.Jolly

Hello Aaron
surely you are not suggesting that I have manipulated the workings of the forum on this thread in an immature and childish way just to be mischievous.
No one would ever do that would they?

25 June 2011, 23:40

Aaron Neilson

R.J. - You can manipulate the forum/your original post anyway you want, that's totally up to you. Still won't change the lion's age!

26 June 2011, 00:48

Spring

Great report...thanks for sharing it.

26 June 2011, 01:23

MJines

If I ever have the good fortune to shoot a male lion, I will never post a picture of the lion on AR, even if the damn thing is 12 years old without a tooth left in its head. There are too many dogs running around in the neighborhood these days who cannot resist hiking their leg and dribbling over the accomplishments of others. Makes you think twice about posting any hunt report now.

26 June 2011, 02:07

gerryb

we don't have to worry about the antis sending pictures of old lions to the US fish and wildlife and CITES reps just the young ones and yes they can not resist dribbling all over our accomplishments if they are are weapons to be used against us.

26 June 2011, 02:45

R.Jolly

Hi Mike
Good to hear that you had a good hunt and looking forward to your report. Yep - some peolple enjoyed the hyenas !
I hear what you say about posting reports, but no one will stop me from hunting what is legal or from posting reports that some people apparently enjoy reading.
I just nearly made the big mistake of letting the denigraters drag me down to their level by playing childish games.
Thankfully I'm back to sanity and a degree of integrity now.
Rob

26 June 2011, 03:47

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by R.Jolly:
OK Aaron
I was hoping that it wouldn’t get to this, but I was wrong.
Another AR member warned me against posting a report containing a lion hunt as, in his words I would have to” run the gauntlet of the Neilson and Co lion age witch hunt”.
I said that as I was a big boy I was happy to accept constructive criticism and that I was sure that it would be done in an adult and forthright manor.
We had a bet and I am now down $10.00
I don’t write reports just to make myself look good and show off and I welcome constructive criticism just as much as praise. Everyone who follows the forum is well aware of the way in which you conducted yourself with the poor chap who’s lion report you denigrated some weeks ago and who subsequently swore never to write a report again. Everyone is also aware of the general adverse reaction that you got.
On a couple of occasions in the early days of responses to this report there were questions posed as to whether there should be a separate post on lion ages, but these suggestions were quite obviously not taken up. It is now evident that this was not good enough for some people’s mischievous purposes and instead of making a forthright and grown up comment of opinion or starting their own thread they thought that they would be clever and play games by making obtuse reference to a private discussion.
I am embarrassed to admit that I too became involved in these childish games in a bid to out those responsible. It didn’t take much.
Whatever the age of the lion, everyone who has read the last few post can now clearly see how you conduct yourself.
The sad part is that I consider the crusade that you are on with regard to lion hunting to be laudable, but I question your personal judgement.
You will find that people are more likely to accept your opinions if they are confident in the integrity of the person voicing them.
This will be my last comment on the subject as I won’t waste my time on teaching people morals.
This experience will not stop me from hunting what is legal or from writing reports that apparently some people enjoy reading

R.Jolly - I think if you read your post prior to me saying anything at all, you will see your comments regarding Lane and I. If you can point out here how I was offensive or denegrating to you, I'm happy to apologize? I simply responded to your post regarding Lane and I, asked why the skull sizes you listed were different, and answered "Caracal's" question. How in the world is any of that offensive, or degrading?

Then when you said you were manipulating the thread for amusement, I simply said "that's your right, but it doesn't change the lion's age." So, you admit to "playing a game", hoping to elicit a response from me, and then question my morality?

I'm still honestly confused about your comments regarding private threads vs public threads, not just making a comment or a separate thread, etc, etc?

If you see the NEW Lion Conservation section, there are numerous public threads discussing all of these issues, that started 10-14 days ago! Perhaps you have not seen this new section on AR that Saeed added a couple weeks ago, but I assure you its all there?

People who accept my opinions, are also the same people who are concerned about the African Lion's future, and who recognize the need for change within the current, and widely accepted lion hunting practices. I can't make everyone accept my opinions, but I certainly hope to educate and change some minds! I do so, only for the better-ment of the lion, the African environment, and the rest of Africa's wildlife. Yet, somehow because of that, you suggest my morality should be questioned? How about questioning the morality of the PH's who are willing to shoot young/immature lions, without concern for the negative effects it can and does have on us all?

As you suggest, I'll work on my morals. In the meantime would you kindly join me in urging PH's across Africa to adopt better lion hunting practices? Those which focus on conserving the lion, harvesting only mature lions, and recognizing that if we don't do this, we could possibly lose the lion forever!

Thank you,

26 June 2011, 06:57

ledvm

Mike and others,

I would invite you all over to the Lion Conservation forum to start your own thread to explain why shooting of young lions is OK.

Legal in Africa means nothing. What we are fighting is not happening in Africa...it is happening right here in the USA & EU.

We all love African Wildlife and the adventures it offers us. Why not do right by it???

And BTW...I have gotten to know Aaron Neilson very well in the last couple of years. A more forthright and genuinely caring person (in regards to wildlife) I have never met. Attacking him personally will get you know where as those who truly know him...know different!

26 June 2011, 07:01

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by R.Jolly:
I just learned that the lion skull has an SCI score of 23 6/16 which I am told makes it into the book.

An interesting fact is that lion skulls enlarge little if any after the age of 4.

for more details see: http://forums.accuratereloadin...671048751#8671048751

If I were to question anyones integrity...I would question the person who first wrote 23 6/16" and changed it to 25 6/16" in the midst of controversy without even saying it was a typo or a mistake or something.

27 June 2011, 07:08

Slider

Wonderful Trophies!!! Congrats

02 July 2011, 10:22

African Hunters Quest

Rob
Great report, loved reading it.
On a more serious note how could you shoot that lion...
I am pretty sure it still had bum fluff

Guys, how about you go piss on someone elses parade. The money that people like Rob put into Africa holds far more weight with the people in Africa than does the propaganda war.

Soon there wont be a lion picture on this board that the antis will not have convinced us is too young. Stop playing their game and spend your time and money on pro hunting propaganda. Do you really think you will beat them playing by their rules at their game which was engineered to allow you to participate whilst proving yourself wrong.

If you really want to make a difference then take a new person hunting each year and double our ranks. If every hunter did that soon the rabid minority would find themselves singing their war cries in the wrong camp

Congrats again Rob and bravo on an awesome hunt.
HQ

02 July 2011, 10:52

Antlers

Rob, thanks for the great report and congrats on some fine trophies! I especially liked the first lion pic...

02 July 2011, 17:02

R.Jolly

Slider,Hunters Quest,Antlers
Thanks guys, I was always confident that the majority of members on this forum had decent common sense.
Regards
Rob

06 July 2011, 08:23

505 gibbs

a more balanced approach

06 July 2011, 08:32

Equinsu Ocha

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
If I ever have the good fortune to shoot a male lion, I will never post a picture of the lion on AR, even if the damn thing is 12 years old without a tooth left in its head. There are too many dogs running around in the neighborhood these days who cannot resist hiking their leg and dribbling over the accomplishments of others. Makes you think twice about posting any hunt report now.

I agree with this completely. Great post!

Jolly, helluva hunt. Congratulations!