How did this turn out, in the end? Was SBB vindicated? After reading this thread, my impression was that they were criticized a bit unfairly.

What ended up happening?

dave

When all the facts were revealed, Glen and Ron quit posting emotional and factless rebuttals. The safari contract documents cleared SBB. The was no need for further discussion as the issue was beat to death. There was an online poll and it also favored SBB, although that was nothing more than opinion. The contracts revealed the facts.

I saw Graeme at the Dallas Safari Club show in January and he and Amber are doing very well. He now has another concession in Mozambique which brings his total to three. I would personally have no reservation with doing business with Graeme.

I am a quiet reader of this forum, but would like to offer something. Donated hunts are the same thing as trying to get something for nothing. The outfitter has been pressured to donate a hunt to an organization that in turn takes all of the money for their members benefit. What does the outfitter get? A hunter with high expectations because the hunter thinks he has helped the "cause" of the organization. In truth, the outfitter is paying to be at the show, paying for booth space and paying for the purpose of the organization. The donor/buyer of the hunt is putting tremendous strain on the donator/outfitter to provide something with little or no financial incentive. Be real about this - there is no free lunch out there. If you want to hunt - pay a fair price for the service. If you are a member of an organization - make your donation in cash or dues or whatever - but quite asking the resource provider to pay our way.

I would not accept a free hunt or a donated hunt for these reasons.

I would like to hear an anonymous response from an outfitter on this.

Another late post here.
Being one who is in the process of making a 1st trip to Africa, this is something I had to follow. I read every word! There are pissing matches on here I don't waste my time with,but I could'nt put this one down.
It does not seem to me that this trip was anywhere close to the disaster it seemed to start out to be. Matter of fact...There had to be more to this to attack the accused party(SBB)the way these boys did. G&D, neither of you look too creditable. I hate to give you any gratification because of the way you have gone about this. In my mind you have shed some doubt about SBB though. That is what you were after.
Graeme, you defended yourself well. Maybe these guys are just a couple of cheap power snivlers. The tip part was evidence of that.

deadlocked jury

Dogcat; I humbly disagree with you on the donated hunt issue. In this case, SBB got 30% of the auction price back which amounted to $ 2,500, which is not profit, but surely went toward covering costs which were primarily fuel and food. I paid $ 2,400 in lisence fees and I tipped the staff and PH most generously. I know that my hunt with SBB had costs, but I trust it may have been close to a wash.

Than again, I came back and published a detailed hunt report in our SCI Chapter newsletter which was most complimentary. And since I had such an enjoyable experience, I also published a hunt report here on AR. Not that I wouldn't have posted one if I had a bad experience, but I had an incentive to do so because I did have a good time. Suppose how many hundreds or thousands of people might have seen it.

Also, in some cases if the outfitter donates a hunt of a certain value, the club (SCI / DSC) can and may provide the outfitter with booth space and other amenities in return for the donation. I know that is a policy of my local chapter, but not sure about others.

So, in addition to the outfitters contribution to hunting conservation (which is what SCI does with the $$) the outfitter has an opportunity to strut his stuff and then the member/hunter will tell others of his fabulous hunt. A form of advertising....

SBB donates several hunts to local SCI chapters as well as one for the national each year, which is most generous in my opinion. If Graeme were to drop in I suppose he would say he donates to give back to the industry which provides his livelyhood and to build his reputation, which is everything in the outfitting industry. And in my opinion, he has a fine reputation.

I understand that SBB did not make money on this deal, and all safari companies that are coerced into donating a hunt have my sympathy. I think it is a practice that should be terminated.

However, I also do not understand why the terms of the written contract were not followed.

Post's like this make me the "moer in" We will have to double check outfits that have sent through donation packages to the BC chapter of SCI, Thanx for the heads up. Does this guy own his land or not.

Sometimes I think it is a good thing to have your own contract that get's signed, then it is not a one sided situation, then a briech of contract is a briech of contract, both from the outfitter and client side.

500 grains- you never said a truer word. IMO SCI have now turned into nothing more than a money making machine. Their HQ is a fine example of this.



The sooner outfitters start to work together and try to find a way to limit the hunt donation thing the better. The astronomical price of taking a booth at the convention added onto the hunt donation is forcing everyone to jack their prices up more and more and the only people to benefit are SCI. Hunters lose out because they have to pay more for their hunt and the outfitters lose out because less hunters book due to the higher prices.



Contracts: as I read it on this occasion, the contract was stuck to, but the hunt purchaser just decided to bleat unfairly some time after he got home. The outfitter just posted the signed contract and that should have been an end to the matter. I'd add to that comment by saying that in my eyes the purchaser got a really good deal on the hunt and how he has the neck to complain I simply don't know .....

What would you outfitters/guide services think of coming to a show without the obligation to donate a hunt but to donate 5% of what you book through the show to a verifiable conservation project in Africa or whereever the attendees chose?

What should booth fees be?
How long should the show last?
What is the best way to attract attendees?

Why should we have to donate anything?. We already pay for the booth+carpets+furniture+power+cleaning+++++



On top of that, as you know the entrance fees for the general public are outragous.



Even if there was no donation whatsoever SCI would still be making a good profit on the show......I'm not anti-SCI, but I am anti donation. Everyone has the right to make a fair profit, but this donation thing is now way out of hand. I don't know how many hunts were donated this year, but I'd like to know their total retail worth........ I would guess that it takes an obscene amount of money out of the industry.

As far as I can tell all these donations do is lead to infation of safari costs. I am always ask for donations in my office...the people who extort donation...will never use you anyway.


I think the outfitters should start to decline the donated hunts and offer an incentive for anyone who books with them.

If the outfitter doesn't want to make a donation of some sort he doesen't get a booth. If he wants a booth in a good location he has to donate a hunt. So it's a case of donate or don't come........so I don't go and an ever increasing number of outfitters (that I know) are doing the same.



Fortunately, we have a large clientel who rebook every year due to the high service level and good quality hunt we give them. By the time we add recommendations and new business from the website we don't need to go to the conventions ........and that's the way I intend to keep it.

Steve,

Well said..Many who want a safari want it for nothing..
When we want to sell something we want top dollar..Expect nothing less...To buy a hunt for a song and expect the same for a hunt that I or any pay five figures for...makes no sense to me...Someone has to pay the food and fuel bill..and other amenities also...

Mike

I find forced hunt donations to be morally offensive.

Are thoracic surgeons required to perform open heart surgery for free in order to get into medical conventions?

Do plumbers have to unclog toilets for free to get into home depot?

Do lawyers have to get Martha Stewart off the hook to get into the Bar convention?

Buying a hunt at the convention is bound to have a few things unsettled. That is why there are booking agents, to iron out these things and answer your questions sufficiently.