quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Jeff, the "PHs" there weren't trained professional hunters, just guys from the local village who knew the area and had hunted it before.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Mike,

I will respectfully disagree about the every man for himself comment. The PH has a responsibility to protect me and I have a responsibility to protect him. I wouldn't have left the PH in your predicament without trying to help/shoot or whatever. It's just the way I feel it should be. Everyone can pile on me now.

Jeff

I get your point Jeff but the reality was once we got in the herd of elephants they were on the other side of the root structure like 20 feet away. We were in like a narrow alley way with a herd of elephants going thru it.

I only know what I saw - I don't know what the PH saw. Maybe he saw an elephants or elephants coming at him and decided to climb out of the riverbed. I know for sure he saw an elephant cause in a few second the elephant was near where he was standing.

No one called for me - only words I heard were lion lion in this whole debacle at the start.

I shot the elephant with a 375H&H CZ - 11 pound gun held as a pistol. I was transition from a left hand kneeling position to running run 30-45 feet to my left. The only way I can move left from a left hand kneeling position is I have to sit back on my butt. Sitting on my butt with my left handing giving me support to get up and both my legs arched in front of me. This was no great aimed shot but the best I could muster. The shot was not aimed at anything other than keeping the elephant off me.

I don't know how to shoot or where to shoot a herd of elephants in a riverbed. I have never hunted elephant before. I have seen some footage of culls in the Save and it is highly structured. They take down herds in 10-15 seconds but they have a helicopter, and professional hunters Leon Duplessis and Peter Fleck doing the core shooting. And they don't do it in a narrow dry riverbed.

I mention this because in this whole mess I always through the tracker as behind me. I know the PH and the translator were ahead of me - I saw the PH get out. I had no idea where the translator was.

Once I saw the elephant coming towards me and the other activity on my right. I had already decided to head towards where my PH got out of the riverbed. I had only one thought in my mind – I did not want to get touched by an elephant. I never thought about the tracker or where he could be once I saw the elephant. Before that I as thinking he was behind or more correctly to my right as my back was to the riverbed and I was expecting lion/lions coming towards me. The tracker or the translator never crossed my mind and I don’t think I crossed theirs.

The only thing I was thinking was I don’t want to be touched by the elephant. Outside the riverbed there were also elephants. When I was running in the grass it was from these elephants. Running in the grass I was scared of the elephants. In the riverbed it was just I don’t want to be touched by the elephants.

I never thought about the tracker or the translator till I saw them. The PH was running with me or more correctly a little ahead of me and too my right and I was catching up with him.

I don’t think the tracker for a second thought of anyone when he ran and started the fire line. The translator was shouting the first words on his tongue Lion Lion. All the shooting was kind of akin to us throwing stuff at the elephants just to keep them away from us. It wasn’t in anyway planned.

Each man on this own in this case is that the first order of business was not to be touched by the elephant. I don’t see the tracker in any great immediate danger he could have warned us when he ran.

I had no bearing in the riverbed to do anything other than I knew the exit was to my left and I saw my PH go thru it. Once I got out it was not like I had the higher ground and the elephants in the riverbed. There were elephants in the riverbed as well as outside. What I saw, probably the PH saw – I don’t know for sure.

I know that at least for me I did not have mental composition to think about duties or responsibilities. In this whole time frame I just that one thought/purpose that was don’t get touched by a elephant – running in the grass I add the additional element of I was scared of elephants.

I think when we all reconvened at the fire line and everybody was there the thought moved to lets get out of here. If someone was not there I think once people stopped running or more correctly reconvened the notion of duty and responsibility would come back. Also physically I don’t think we would have gone much more than the fire line. I was physically done. I may have reached a point at which I decided to just stop turn around and face what ever came. Glad I did not have to make the decision.

All in all your are 100% correct - we had responsibilities to each other. I just think we were in this crappy situation where one did not have the cognitive and mental abilities to manage or fulfill these responsibilities. Sorry if it sounds like a lame excuse but at least for the tracker and translator I never thought about them and the PH only mattered cause I saw him leave (his exit was a point to get to) and I saw him running as I was running (he was reference figure). The only thought in my head was don’t get touched by an elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Mike, I am glad you survived.

None of the following observations are intended as criticism of anything you have said or done. They are based upon my experience of years of hunting DG and men and it is my hope that some of these things may cause others to think about these issues. It is my sincere belief that each of us is ultimately responsible for protecting and saving his own life.

The physical reaction you experienced after crossing the fire line is a normal reaction to an adrenaline dump in your body. You experienced the adrenaline rush during your experience in the riverbed with the elephant. While you don't mention it, I'll bet you were incredibly thirsty when you collapsed across the fire line, as well.

While a 375 is fine for Lion, it is not, IMO, an adequate defensive weapon when confronted by angry elephant, whether a solo bull or a herd of cows. Regardless of what you have on quota, if you are hunting in an area with elephant, particularly known aggressive elephant, you should be appropriately armed with a reliable rifle, bolt or DR, in a caliber of 458 or larger.

Hunting DG is always a team effort. Sometimes trackers will run, but many will competently carry your second rifle and may be able to use it in a defensive confrontation. There is no excuse nor set of circumstances under which a PH should desert a client. And sometimes you have to stand and shoot - together. Elephants cannot jump and will not climb over a downed elephant. Running to an elephant you have put down and using it for cover to shoot other aggressive herd animals is a tactic that has been used as long as man has hunted elephant and is well documented. Carrying sufficient ammunition on your person that can be easily accessed for reloading is essential.

Debriefing - talking about the critical incident - helps greatly in lessening PTSD. Saying it out loud to another human being helps. Mike evidenced symptoms of PTSD that evening and the following day, and sounds like he is still experiencing it. Relating the incident to Biebs, et. al., was a good thing. Professional counseling with a PTSD trained de-briefer will help. All special operators participate in mandatory post incident debriefing.

Following are some of the things I've found work for me when hunting DG in elephant country.
My choice of elephant guns begins at 458 caliber and goes to 500NE. I carry a minimum of 15 rounds on my belt and can reload either bolt or DR with either hand; I practice and drill with dummy rounds/snap caps at home. Because I suffer from an issue with thick blood, I always wear a CamelBack filled every morning with water and ice (if available) whenever I leave the truck. The outside pocket of my CamelBack contains a QuikClot, Israeli bandage and G.I. one hand tourniquet along with a small flashlight, a tube of NUUN tablets and some packets of power gel and fire starting material. I also carry a dozen OTC NSAIDs in my pocket.

Do whatever works for you. Hope this makes some think.

quote:

Jeff, the "PHs" there weren't trained professional hunters, just guys from the local village who knew the area and had hunted it before.

Risky.

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Originally posted by Trapper Tom:
I am headed there next year for buff and plains game. I am curious to know why you were angery and frustrated with the hunt before the elephant incident?

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Originally posted by Bockhunter:

quote:

Jeff, the "PHs" there weren't trained professional hunters, just guys from the local village who knew the area and had hunted it before.

Risky.

...but that is the adventure in these countrys.
To hunt "alone" without an "true PH" is one of the reasons why people go to BF or Cam.

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Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Side note - anyone know of a ph or tracker that had physical contact with a elephant and is still in the field.

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Originally posted by MJines:

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Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Side note - anyone know of a ph or tracker that had physical contact with a elephant and is still in the field.

Yes, Buzz Charlton's tracker Criton was stomped by an elephant two or three seasons ago. He sustained a broken hip among other injuries. He was back hunting before the end of the season. I have hunted with him several times since then and other than a very slight limp when he is tired, he shows no adverse physical or emotion signs as a result of the incident. He is just as sure of himself up close with elephant as before.

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Originally posted by Thierry Labat:
Mike, what an adventure and glad you lived to tell the tale!! Well done on your lion too.

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Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Admiral - what does it mean?

Mike

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Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Thanks for the PM admiral

I will buy and read the book.

Mike